She Interviewed Sandhurst Cadets. Here's The Pattern She Found | Major Catherine Henderson

You can pass every test at Sandhurst and still hit the real shock on day one of troop command: sometimes you simply do not have the answer. I sit down with Major Catherine Henderson, a serving Royal Signals officer with a seriously varied career, to talk about what leadership looks like when the textbook ends and your soldiers need you to be steady, human, and useful.

We walk through her journey from Welbeck Defence Sixth Form College to Sandhurst, then into the Royal Signals, with stops along the way in recruiting, instructing, and strategic work in Main Building. If you are weighing up cap badges or staring down the regimental selection board process, we get practical: why unit visits matter, how a simple five-year plan can sharpen your thinking, and why choosing based on one “legend” instructor can send you to the wrong place.

We also bust a common myth: Royal Signals is not just the CIS wing and radios. We dig into what communicators actually do, how technical soldiers become SMEs, why officers must translate complex kit issues for non-technical commanders, and where cyber, electronic warfare, and emerging AI work fits. Some of the most important moments are personal: building trust with a sceptical soldier, leading through vulnerability, and handling mental health crises with care and professionalism, plus a candid view on serving as a woman in defence.

Subscribe for more honest military career chats, share this with someone choosing their path, and leave a review if it helped. What part of leadership do you wish someone had told you earlier?

Transcript

Cold Open On Real Leadership

SPEAKER_00 0:00

You're an entitled officer and I don't know if I really want to work for you. The reality when you're actually leading is that sometimes you just don't have the answer. Everybody has a place in the army. Everyone will find their cat badge. It's for you to go and decide that. But I'm not gonna project what I think onto you. It's such a personal decision. Had a soldier who was suicidal and he came in the next day and he sat and cried and, you know, told me how difficult things were for him, and I did what that individual needed me to do for him.

SPEAKER_02 0:28

If you're sat there at Sandhurst now, what would you say to someone with a like, how do I know if I'm making the right decision?

Meet A Royal Signals Major

SPEAKER_02 0:37

Hi guys, welcome back to the Army Bloke podcast. Today, my guest is a serving major in the Royal Signals, has had a really interesting career, and I'll be really transparent with you, I'm not super clued up on what the Royal Signals does when you actually get into the core. So I will genuinely be asking questions. Uh, if you're sat there thinking that you don't know much, I'll be asking the questions that I imagine you'll have. She's currently working at main building and has a had a really interesting time throughout. Either that's being involved in recruiting, being involved in instructing, and also some really cool deployments in that as well. Catherine, it's great to have you on. Thanks for giving up your time and coming in today. Do you want to just give a bit of an intro to yourself?

SPEAKER_00 1:16

Yeah, of course. So I'm uh Major Catherine Henderson. My journey started um at Wellbeck Defence Six Forum College back uh when I was 16. Um, I commissioned into the raw signals in 2014. Um, and then since then I've had, you know, a really busy, diverse career. And my jobs have kind of ranged from uh traditional uh troop command through to recruiting, um, working overseas in the US and also an operational tour out to Somalia. I've worked with the specialist community in some technical uh communications delivery projects. I've delivered ceremonial communications to London district covering King's Birthday Parade, state opening of parliament. I've recently done an exchange job out in the US working in the Pentagon, and I'm currently working in uh main building. And then throughout my career, I've on top of that also I've represented the army at swimming and water polo. I'm a skiing instructor, and most recently I applied to be at Cree to the King. Didn't quite get it, but uh the the application was in, got to the final five, which was great.

SPEAKER_02 2:19

Nice, and you interviewed that at Buckingham Palace.

SPEAKER_00 2:21

Yeah, I did, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:21

That's a cool experience anyway. Very cool. Uh we might come on to it. But for those that don't know, so main building is essentially well, how would you describe it?

SPEAKER_00 2:28

Uh it's like the strategic headquarters for defence. Um, so all the services are represented split into various different floors, and the grown-ups kind of sit um on one floor, and then you know, there's subsequent teams that sit beneath that. Um and it I think it they cover off a variety of different roles. Um, we, our team, look at Euro Atlantic security.

SPEAKER_02 2:49

Okay,

Welbeck And The Technical Pathway

SPEAKER_02 2:50

very cool. And for those that don't know as well, well, we'll start at the start anyway, and you kind of started with Wellbeck. And I don't think we've had anyone on yet that's talked about Wellbeck. So, wherever you want to begin with, with what Wellbeck is, how it worked, and what it was like for you.

SPEAKER_00 3:03

So, yeah, I applied for AOSB um and the kind of going to Wellbeck when I was about 15, expressed interest and um kind of went through the process of pre-AOSB selection um and then went down to Westbury when I was 15. I think the biggest challenge at that point was actually getting there because um I'm from Yorkshire and I had to change trains like three times to you know finally that was my first challenge. Um went through the AOS B process and then yeah, uh passed it and ended up at um Wellbeck. The purpose of the college really is for people to come, or they've got an interest in engineering and to kind of feed into the technical um areas of the services. So it's a tri-service, well, and included uh civil servants as well. And we had to study maths and physics for A-level as well as yeah, as well as, you know, we had flex over others, but you know that we didn't have the option to do things like English, you know, it was all people were doing like electronics and chemistry, and you know, my other subjects were um PE and uh politics. So the college is kind of set up as um a CCF, so combined cadet force. So you're doing kind of um green stuff alongside studying, which is great. And I really enjoyed my time there. And I've just got I've got incredible friends from all over the world, and they're they're all doing you know lots of different things now.

SPEAKER_02 4:29

So when do you start there? 16.

SPEAKER_00 4:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:31

So okay, so at 16 years old, where is it?

SPEAKER_00 4:33

Oh, so it's in uh just near Loughborough.

SPEAKER_02 4:36

Okay, so at 16 you're moving out.

SPEAKER_00 4:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:38

You're going to essentially boarding school type vibes.

SPEAKER_00 4:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:41

Um are you wearing green kit?

SPEAKER_00 4:43

So yeah, so Really? Yeah, so you wore Four Child Soldiers. No, I'm just you're wearing like working dress um of the service that you're joining. Um so we were in Combat 95 and heavy black boots and very poorly shaped barrows. Okay. Um so you know, in the normal day when you're going to lessons, it's basically college. We were in, you know, standard uniform, and then on our CCF days we would wear green coats.

SPEAKER_02 5:10

So it's like a mini sandhurst type. I guess so. Um that's kind of how I betray it. Yeah. Okay, and you do two years there.

SPEAKER_00 5:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:18

And then you go to university.

SPEAKER_00 5:19

Yeah, so two years there and then went to university. Um, I studied uh maths with business management um up in Newcastle. Um, and uh the scheme was that we were kind of bursars, so we got a bursary, and then we did um we kind of um went and did a version of the UOTC um once a week. Um that was our commitment. The schemes now evolved, so well back's actually closed, so we're um you know, we're a rare breed now. But um but the bursa scheme still exists, I understand, to get you know people who are interested into kind of technical roles and um for those that are interested, I think it's a really positive thing and something people should definitely explore if they're interested.

SPEAKER_02 6:00

Yeah, and you mentioned the engineering from my experience when I was at Sandhurst, the people that had been through Wellbeck were going to the Royal Engineers and REME.

SPEAKER_00 6:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:07

Uh is Signals a normal route as well? Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:11

Yeah, so the four cat badges were Signals Engineers, REME and RLC. Got you. Um, so yeah, that's kind of where we branched into.

SPEAKER_02 6:19

Okay, awesome. So you go to university OTC experience, or did you leave that to one?

SPEAKER_00 6:24

We did DTES, which was the Defence Technical Undergraduate Schream, which was like our version of the OTC.

SPEAKER_02 6:29

Got you. Okay, and that's still just keeping on top of green skills at the end. Yeah, exactly that, yeah. Um and then once you finished, you just went straight straight into Sandhurst now.

SPEAKER_00 6:39

Yeah, so I actually um deferred my entry to Sandhurst because I wanted to just go and do some fun stuff for a bit. So I uh I went travelling around New Zealand and Australia, and then um I did like half a ski season, um, actually all through the military. So I did um the Royal Signals core ski racing camp for a month before Christmas, and then in the new year I did my uh ski foundation two and three courses, um, which then set me up to get my instructor qual quite early in my career.

SPEAKER_02 7:08

Okay, so I feel like you're making the most of it before you've actually full-time. Well, I guess you are full-time at that point because you've gone through Wellbear. Yeah. Um, but even before Sandhurst, there's some really cool stuff that I just absolutely did not take advantage

University Scheme And Pre-Sandhurst Choices

SPEAKER_02 7:20

of when I look back. Uh okay, so then you started at Sandhurst.

SPEAKER_00 7:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:24

How did Sandhurst go for you as a general experience?

SPEAKER_00 7:26

I actually really enjoyed it. And I think there's probably an element of rose tinted, you know, looking back. Um, but I think it's the the course itself and kind of what you get from it as a person is so rewarding. I think you learn so much about yourself. Um, and that could be, you know, how to deal with something particularly tricky or just how to keep moving forward and always taking another step when you're absolutely exhausted and your body just wants to say no. Um and then on top of that, you know, being able to be tested and develop plans and come up with solutions to problems and do that all considering the team, you know, like there's a lot going on, and I don't, you know, I think that um, you know, that point in which you do commission is is truly, you know, one of your proudest days and biggest achievements, you know. So um really loved it. I was in a all-female platoon. Um I was actually in the second to last all-female platoon, templatoon. Um, and um, yeah, I really, really loved it. And, you know, the girls that I went through, you know, many of them are still, you know, my some of my best friends, and um, it really kind of pulls you together in in many different ways. And um I think that, you know, the argument of split platoons or you know, all female or all male platoons um is quite interesting. And and it was something that we we had pitched to us quite a lot when we were at the academy because the change was coming and they wanted to understand kind of what we thought about it. And you know, at the point we went through, we didn't have the option of joining kind of teeth arm and stuff like that, you know, that wasn't yet open. Um, and we did have, you know, there was a lot of conversation around it. Um, but to be honest, um, we were accommodated as a female platoon, but the way that the training was conducted was pretty much always mixed, and we broke down our platoon was always broke down, broken down into thirds and dished out to the male platoons, and the male platoons would backfill the female platoon on exercise and whatnot. So, and you know, eventually once we got to the point where PT became a bit more mixed, you know, we were doing that as well. So I would say it was potentially different, but I think from an admin perspective, maybe easier because we were just all, you know, females just living on one, you know, one corridor. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:33

If you could go back and do it again, would you be happy with a split platoon or uh would you actually quite like it to be mixed?

SPEAKER_00 9:40

I actually just enjoy I enjoyed the way we did it. Um I, you know, I understand why changes have happened, um, but I've also really uh I really, really enjoyed the time. And I think there's a nice thing and a power in the network of kind of females and like looking after each other because I think you know there's there's a tendency to maybe feel isolated. I don't know because I've not experienced it, but um I think I really appreciated the fact that you know when all the training was done and we were kind of just chilling in the lines that you know I was amongst you know the girlfriends.

SPEAKER_02 10:11

I've got a I sort of mentioned this on the on the last podcast I did with Tori. So I would say throughout my life I've had minimal experience working with women. So I went, um, the youngest of four boys, I went to an all-boys school, uh, and then I joined the infantry, right? So that was it. But at Santos we did have mixed platoons, and I think we had five women in there. So given that your platoon's about 30, it's definitely a minority. However, what I actually realised uh was there's definitely a different way of thinking and looking at problems, which was really good. And I'm

Sandhurst Lessons And Female Platoons

SPEAKER_02 10:40

really open with the like the best attack we did, well, I thought we did as a cadet, I don't know what the DS thought, but came from a woman that commissioned into the ETS, which cat that isn't a cat badge you'd associate with like huge tactical prowess, but it was really, really cool, and I think I learned a lot about the thought process and decision making and also dealing with different types of soldiers. Yeah, obviously, at Sandhurst you're not actually doing it, but in the sessions where they're like hypothetical leadership challenges, and I mean they're hypothetical, but literally months later they're real. It was really interesting to see how you dealt with it. And I think I approached Sandhurst with I would say a natural transactional leadership style uh because I also thought that was what the military was all about. And I remember being picked up a few times, and it was mainly from the women to be like, look, actually, you know, chill out. Yeah, basically just calm down, uh, which which took me a while to take on board, but then I think actually it did help a lot, um, and something that I sort of continue to work on, especially as a young platoon commander. So, really interesting to get your your take on that. So, RSBs come around, you commission into Royal Signals. Um, it's really interesting because you've been on the other side of that as well, which we'll come on to a bit later. But many people watching this will be either going through the regimental selection board process now or you know, have it coming up. How was that experience for you? Because you've obviously done well, but was it kind of a given or no?

SPEAKER_00 12:01

Um I wouldn't say so. I think it's just like super stressful because you really care about where you want, you know, you kind of have a feeling of where you want to be, and you know, everyone really cares about that. And you know, it's it's gonna shape, you know, what the next few years of your life looks like, right? And the opportunities that you may or may not have. Um, and so I think that, you know, it's super stressful. And also when you're trying to do it concurrent to everything else that's going on at the academy, I think um that's really tough. But the good thing is that everyone's going through it at the same time as well, and and that the directing staff really do appreciate that, you know, everyone's putting themselves under a lot of pressure to prepare and get ready. And actually, you know, they also are kind of cheering you on in the background because they want their cadets to to end up at the right place for them as well. And, you know, I think from an academy perspective, you know, you're well looked after. Um, they can't really give guidance on what's coming because it's kept out specific, but I think that, you know, they they are very supportive and and you know, in trying to give people the space and time to prepare accordingly. I think I'd had quite a lot of um exposure to the raw signals before. My my other choice was um the REMI. As you go through the academy, there are points in the terms where you go on unit visits and you get to, you know, you're hosted by a cat badge, and you know, whether you go to their core headquarters or you go and visit a regiment and it's normally for 48 hours or so. And it's a really, really nice time to just escape the academy and just do some learning and go into kind of field army a little bit and just have a bit of a breather and you know, go and ask the questions you need to and or just get a feel for um the cat badge itself and try and figure out if that's kind of where you fit. So that's a really good opportunity at that point to learn. You know, if you've not been in service or you've not had any any exposure to the cat badges, you know, the most important thing you can do to prepare for RSBs is ask as many questions as you can and do as much learning as you can. And whether that's through drinks, evenings, or visits, you know, it's really, really important you do it. And don't assume just because maybe you're an ex-ranker or you've got some reserve experience or you've been to OTC that you have all the answers because um I think the process can be quite humbling as well for some people who maybe think that they can pitch themselves being a Wellbexian and going back to what you've just said about, you know, was it a given? I think that um if you approach it in that way, I think you're gonna become, you know, unstuck a little bit. So, you know, I did a lot of learning and a lot of research. And I think for me, the way that I prepared, and um when we get to it, the way that I told cadets to prepare as well is to kind of have a bit of a five-year plan, like figure out where you want to be and what you want to do and sell that to your cat badge. Be like, you know, this is what I have to give you, like this is who I am and this is what I want to do. And so for me, it was like, you know, I want to be a troop commander here, and then I want to go off and do this at this unit, and then I would really like to go and do this. Um, and I think for you that's really good because individually you're like, well, I can see myself going to do that. And then for the core that's you know, hoping to take you on as an officer, they know that you've done their research, that you see yourself in their cat badge, and that you know, hopefully you've got enthusiasm and kind of lots to give.

SPEAKER_02 15:05

So definitely.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:06

I hear you on the uh if you think you know you've got it in the bag,

Regimental Selection Boards Without Guesswork

SPEAKER_02 15:10

then you could go around. I met a lad recently uh in a pub in Battersea, I think it was, uh, and he very kindly came over and we just sort of had a chat. And he was in the junior term, and you could spot them a mile off, right? Yeah, ties on it. Yeah, legends. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, clearly log weekend going for it, uh, which was which was great. Really nice people, and he said he was like, I'm commissioning Royal Anglia. And I was like, Oh, fantastic. Are you like a confirmed cadet? He was like, No. I was like, maybe just curve that a little bit, like you want to commission, right? Yeah, it's just a bit of a subtle thing, but actually can affect your mindset. Okay, so Santa has done phase two. We don't have to spend too long on it, but but what does that look like? I imagine different depending on where you go.

SPEAKER_00 15:49

Yeah, so in the Royal Signals, we do an attachment phase. So when you commission, well, actually in senior term, you select kind of where you would like to go for your attachment, and you go and you're attached to a unit for a period of time. And when I went through, I I did a six-month attachment. Um, they're now a bit shorter, well much shorter. Um, but the purpose of it is just so you can go and take a breath. You're like, cool, like I'm an officer now, I've commissioned, I've got my my one pip. It's quite grounding. You just do a bit of learning about kind of like how a regiment works. And so on the flip side, you know, when I was an adjutant and you have people coming in on attachment, you know, the regiments prepare for it. And so normally, you know, a troop commander is kind of assigned to look after you and kind of bring you through, but there's an opportunity during the period to be involved in as much as you know the regiment has time for. And so you'll have time where you might go and visit regimental ops and understand how regiments run and how you know tasks come into a unit and how we um deploy teams, etc. You go and work in various different squadrons, so understand the kitten capabilities that they have and kind of what they do. Um, and that could vary from, you know, um in our cat badge, we have the Queen's Gurkha signals, so you could go and have you know a couple of weeks working with the Gurkhas, um, as well as you know, some of our more traditional uh subunits. Um and then you know, you get introduced to mess life, and normally, you know, you're well hosted. And sometimes, if you're really lucky, there's the opportunity to get involved in sport on AT as well. Um, so the time for me, I was attached to 15th Signal Regiment, which now has a completely different role to what it did when I went there. Um, but I was tasked to um run the Lanyard team, um, which we'll get on to, and um, I did plenty of sport on AT. I managed to get away to Cyprus to get for the army um swing training camp. Um, and then yeah, I bounced around all the different squadrons, kind of understanding and learning what they do. And the kind of end state of that is that you deliver a presentation on the troop commanders course on the unit that you've been to, which is really great because then everyone's doing that collective learn of kind of everyone's experiences, but also understanding what different units do from the perspective of a second lieutenant that's visited. Um and Lanyard was um great, and it's something that the Corps does every year. Um, it's 40 miles with 40 pounds um over some level of Argus terrain, and you have your team. And um, when when I went through and did it, um, you didn't know where you were going. So you'd do all of your training, a bit like almost like a long reach, I guess. And then you would about I think a week before the location was um revealed and you were told, you know, where the RV point was essentially, you get your team there. Um so when I did it, it was up in Yorkshire, and then you you arrive, um all the team captains are pulled in, you're given all your grids, and then it's like plot your route. So you you get your team around, you know, plot the route on the map, and given all your checkpoint locations, um, and the certain kit that you've got to carry, and etc. etc. And then you go to sleep, get woken up by um I think it was ACDC Thunderstruck, like that came on at some silly time in the morning, like 4 a.m. There's absolute bangers on, like preparing everyone for this big old tab that we were about to do. And um, yeah, and then you know, you get set off by the core kernel at the start, and you know, it's every unit like pitches teams and it's really, really competitive, and it's yeah, and yeah, you just crack on and off you go and do 40 miles, and let me tell you it's graft.

SPEAKER_01 19:21

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

Depending on where you where you do it. Yeah, so yeah, you you have your team, so people volunteer for it. And it's a bit of a right of passage in the core. Um, some some legends have done it like loads of times. Have only done it once so far. Um, but yeah, it's um it's really good and um great thing to do and like a real test of leadership as well, because lots of times where people r you know want to refuse to soldier and you know, especially as a second lieutenant, where you know, some lots of people are way more experienced than you and um a bit older and whatnot.

SPEAKER_02 19:52

Well, that's the bit I'd like to get onto. So um a lot of the the sort of conversation kind of goes around training, etc. And then I've likened this to sort of a driving test before. The real test is once you've passed and you're in the car by yourself, and that's kind of how it feels to suddenly you know get to a platoon or troop and go, Oh, it's it is just me here now as as the officer. Um I guess I mean you can take this any way you want uh in terms of what you want to share, but the jump is quite severe. I think I think it's probably the hardest jump you do um as a as an as a young officer, particularly. So, how did that go for you? Uh and what if any mistakes you made or lessons you learned from particularly sort of the people that are already there, i.e. the soldiers?

SPEAKER_00 20:33

So I arrived at Troop Command a year after I commissioned because the Troop Commanders course at the time were six months long. I think the Troop Commanders course in Blandford is is really good and well set up, and I think it does prepare you for Troop Command, but you know, a course is a course, and actually, you know, you only really get a feel for things through the experience and kind of actually doing it. Um I think um my first probably six months, um, my uh troop sergeant was absolutely mentoring me and kind of looking after me through the process of getting kind of settled and finding my feet, both as a leader and also just as an individual in the field army, because you spend so much time in training establishments and it is so different to then actually just be in a unit. Um, and um so yeah, I mean I didn't really acknowledge he was doing it at the time, but I, you know, I know he was. I think my biggest piece of advice to anyone and and really kind of how I tried to approach it is that initially you're still on that journey of learning and you don't have all the answers, and you don't, you know, you need to really understand kind of what you're doing.

Attachments And The Lanyard Challenge

SPEAKER_00 21:40

And so what I did was, you know, I had certain capabilities in my troop, um, and I got my SMEs in and I said, you know, teach me, you know, what does this stuff do? Like what do I need to know? And I actually, in my Troop Crowners notebook, had I had what was I had what's called a falcon falcon debt. And um, you know, it's lots of green boxes, basically. And allows communications. And I had my debt drawn in the front of my notebook. So I understood the laydown of the equipment, how it fit together, what pieces of the puzzle did what. So maybe some of it held crypto, which made the communications secure. So what were the so what's if that broke? For example, I understood that. And, you know, the pieces that connected to maybe the satellite dishes to give us connectivity back to the UK because we were regularly out in Germany and stuff. Understanding, okay, well, if this goes wrong, then we lose our connection back to, you know, that kind of stuff. So that as a troop commander, I was appreciating and learning from my team, truly learning and appreciating what their part to play in the delivery of communications was, whilst also then having an understanding to be able to translate that higher. Because I worked in 16 Brigade headquarters as a troop commander. So with, you know, all the parachute regiment, et cetera. And I kind of plugged into 216 Parachute Signal Squadron. Um, and we provided um the brigade main headquarters. And so within that headquarters, you know, it's not full of raw signals, people that understand comms, you know, and so if something goes wrong and they're asking why, if you can articulate this is the problem, this is the solution that we're seeking, and this is how long it's going to take, then people kind of understand. Um, and I think that it's really important when you're in a technical core to have the ability and want to learn about the capability in order to be able to translate that for those that might not understand it as well as you do.

SPEAKER_02 23:41

I guess that actually your soldiers are the essence, the subject matter experts on the kit. You're not, but you still need to be able to translate it to whoever you're communicating to. And I guess that's the value that you're bringing in in that role.

SPEAKER_00 23:51

Yeah, exactly. I think I think that you kind of just need to want to learn about the capability and you become technically proficient in the capability that you have, because you know, hopefully at the point, definitely within a year of being in a troop and having all of that kit in your troop, um, you know, you you truly understand you your trade as an officer within the technical space.

SPEAKER_01 24:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:16

But I don't think, you know, you don't have to have a technical degree or really technical background to join the raw signals. Um, you know, we want the right people and but the right people who have a want to learn and to understand tech.

SPEAKER_02 24:29

Well, let's touch on that because I I'm gonna mess the order of the questions up here because it's kind of natural that we we go into that. So we'll come back. You've done some really cool stuff abroad, so I definitely want to touch on that. Um, however, you've got some recruiting experience. Yeah. So what rank were you when you do this? Captain? Captain, yeah. Okay, cool. And well, maybe just give us sort of an insight into what that experience is, because you were very much involved in the process of selecting the next generation of Royal Signals officers, right?

SPEAKER_00 24:54

Yeah, exactly. The recruiting process, I guess, is um, I think it's really important. I think that um I think there's such a fine balance for cat badgers to make sure that they're not overselling their cat badge to cadets because I think you know you have to put yourself in their shoes and remember what it was like for you when you're essentially walking around old college halls with all the cat badges like on stands giving you pictures as to why you know you should join them. And the reality is that, and the approach that I took was it's everybody has a place in the army and everyone will find their cat badge, and we are to help people figure out what's right for them, not to oversell our cat badge to someone and then them join the wrong one, if that makes sense. And so I think that that is really, really important um because I think some sometimes I think that can be done wrong. Um, and then you know, people don't end up in difficulties, but might not necessarily, you know, reach their potential because they're not in the right place to do that.

SPEAKER_02 25:57

Yeah. And it's sorry, and just on that, it's it's really difficult if you haven't done visits before mainboard, which by the way, I would absolutely advise that you do if you've passed mainboard, try and get on some visits. But if you know you have no military experience yourself and you've got to lock in just two choices from across the army, and all you've done is really have a drink with someone and see a stand without really seeing it, what it's all about. Yeah, it's it's difficult.

SPEAKER_00 26:17

Yeah, and I think um, so from my experience, I think that what happens a lot, and I'm sure you can relate to this, is that someone's got like a legend platoon commander and colour sergeant, and they're like, I want to be them, like that's for me. And whatever cat badge it is, but probably like some kind of teeth arm, blue, red, blue, infantry, and then you know, everyone's like, Oh yeah, like colour sergeant Jones is a legend, like that's what I'm gonna go and do. I'm gonna go and join, you know, the PWRR, whatever. And I think that happens a lot. And so I think the first um time that cadets have access to the cause from a recruiting space is um maybe at the end of weeks one to five. I think that's kind of like a cat badge kind of fair, almost like a jobs fair, I guess. They just wander around the halls of old college and you know, we give out bits and bobs and have conversations with people. And some people will come to you and say, you know, I'm really interested in joining your call. And then others will just kind of like slowly walk past, and you know, our job is to try and engage in conversation and you know, give cadets space to ask questions. I think that's kind of the initial thing. Um, and then further on into the junior term, um, uh all the cat badges, cat badges will go to the academy and they'll do stands and they'll be in whole afternoon where units will bring, or cat badges will bring people from different units. So from the raw signals, we used to get a couple of like traditional regiments. We'd get our uh special forces regiment, they would come and bring people. We would have um people from uh 216 Parachute Signal Squadron, we'd have uh the Queen's Gurkha signals represented, and maybe some uh people from at the electronic warfare community. Um, and they would kind of form stands, and I would give an opening pitch on the core, and then the cadets could walk around the stands, get briefs, and ask questions. Um, and that happens, you know, every single cat badge does that on the same day, which to be quite honest, is just an information overload for cadets. Like it's a lot of information to take in when they're just exhausted. Um, and I remember I don't even really remember doing it. Like, you know, it's just a bit of a blur. Um, but that's kind of the next opportunity. Um, and then from there, um, we would um we'd do drinks evenings, and you know, people would come if they were interested. We'd host a dinner night um down at uh three divisional signal regiment um in Bulford. So we would pick up

Troop Command And Learning The Kit

SPEAKER_00 28:40

cadets at like half five and whisk them away in black tie down to um Bulford and just give them an opportunity to have like um a bit of a dinner and a chat with um, you know, officers in the cat badge and you know the officers of Wemash dress and you know it's quite nice and off they would then they'd get shipped back at, you know, whatever point in the evening. Um, and then you have the unit visits as well. Um, and you know, our hope is that people are really interested and they'll come along. Um the you know, the unit visits you only get two, so you've become quite limited as to kind of what you can apply for and what you can put your name down for. But I guess as well, if you've done two and you're still not sure, there's lots of opportunity to reach out and you know, speak to DS of the representative cat badge that you may not have looked into, but you're interested in, and we can kind of generate um opportunities from there as well. So I think there's loads of pressure for people going through to find the answer straight away with really limited information and maybe just you know, you're just looking at what you can see in front of you and you think, well, that looks like a good option, I'll do that, without really kind of digging into what's next. Which is why I think that five-year plan piece is quite important. Because, you know, if you're gonna join the infantry, you know, if you reflect now and you are like, okay, right, I don't really know much about the infantry, but what would my five-year plan be? Yeah, you know, what would you say?

SPEAKER_02 30:03

It's a great question. Uh I've never been great at five-year 10-year plans, to be honest. Um, sort of living life on a whip.

SPEAKER_00 30:10

Yeah, but what were you considering, I guess?

SPEAKER_02 30:12

So I so I genuinely um I joined just to be an infantry platoon commander. Uh, and I I had very much watched the R War documentaries, the Roskemp in Afghanistan, and was like, that's that's it, Leah, that that's it. And because I didn't go to university, when I was deciding, you know, in the first five weeks, you're trying to decide which which cat badges to put down. The reme did say, and I don't know how if this would have actually happened, they did say, Look, we we will send you to university, you can get an in-service degree. And that did really play on my mind to be like, oh, that's a great offer. And then I kind of just went back to my room um uh over the next couple of weeks to before locking it in and just thought, whilst that is a great offer, that is not what I've actually joined the army to do. I've joined and I just knew my chances of going to Afghanistan were going to be in the infantry uh and more specifically the Royal Anglia Regiment, I think, because they'd done so many at that point. Now, I did go to Afghanistan, it was a torrent, not a Herak uh in terms of operation, so it's so very different. I also remember saying at Sandhurst, like, I'm in this job for as long as I enjoy it. Yeah, and when that stops like this, I'm not joining for the full career. So I think that also changed my perspective a little bit on what I was um hoping to achieve. I was actually at Sandhurst on Monday, caught up with my old corporal who's now a colour sergeant there, and he's bossing it, he's he's so good. And he's an influential guy.

SPEAKER_01 31:29

Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_02 31:30

You look at him, charismatic, yeah, yeah, really, really top. And the course lends itself to an infantry cap badge because you're teaching infantry skills most of the time. So I think it's I need to be careful how I say this because it's not that these people aren't impressive, but it's our bread and butter. It's not hard to teach this platoon attack because we really know it in the weeds of it. So it's easy to be impressed by that, and I think you're completely right. You get the the guys that want to go infantry that like, cool, that makes sense, and then other people that aren't this will be my follow-up question to you, actually, but other people that are unsure that get swayed by that because that's what they're seeing, and maybe not the other side. So I guess the question is: if you're sat there at Sandhest now, what would you say to someone where they're like, How do I know if I'm making the right decision by putting down royal signals?

SPEAKER_00 32:16

Um, I'm just I'm gonna pause that question first. I'm gonna say, sounds like you had a really good self-reliance where you were like, I'm a legend, I'm gonna join the infantry.

SPEAKER_02 32:24

I had an awful junior term. I had an awful junior term. I I don't remember, I mean my platoon will know. I won't share it here because it's proper embarrassing, but my self-reliance couldn't have gone worse. Uh yeah, all of the proper like crowbag stuff I was I was doing. I actually remember, I will say this one, I actually remember deciding on night one, I was like, I'll cheat the system here. I won't get in my sleeping bag because it's just gonna take too much time, and then obviously had the worst night of my life. It's hilarious when we got our one hour of sleep. I was just boltics.

SPEAKER_01 32:50

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:51

Um, so yeah, didn't had an awful junior term, very open about that, was bottom third, and was like, this is gonna work. Yeah, called my brother, and I was like, there's no chance of me getting inventory here. Do I just leave and come back? Yeah, like if I'm not doing it, and he was like sort of a bit of a pep talk to be like, come on, mate, the intermediate term is is where it really really counts in terms of the thirds, how much you want to read into that, but um, it is, and there's a few pivotal exercises, and it's like wherever you are in the junior term, the gap between the bottom and the top, let's say, feels massive, but it's not because they're assessing it on your ironing or or all that stuff. Yeah, in the intermediate term, it it I wouldn't it levels out and your natural ability will start to come through if you're good at just learning stuff and implementing it. Yeah, the small things really count, I think. But yeah, that the gap doesn't feel as big as it feels. Yeah, it's actually a lot smaller, you just don't know it yet. So it was the intermediate term where I managed to get all right.

SPEAKER_00 33:47

And back to your question. So um I think the first myth to dispel is that the raw signals is like the CIS wing, because we are not like you know It's so good to mention that actually.

SPEAKER_02 34:00

That's not smart of you, I'll be honest with you. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:03

Um yeah, and you know, when you go to the academy and you're running around with all your batteries and your Bowman radios and you know, the colour sergeants shouting at you because you're trying to do a sit rep or whatever it is, like, yeah, I mean, that's bread and butter infantry stuff, I have to tell you. So I think that's the first myth to dispel because I think that when you're a cadet and you do go up to the wing um in juniors and you are like absolutely strapped in and you've had no sleep and someone's talking at you about radios, like for a lot of people, you know, it's not sexy or goochy at all. Um, and I think the you don't really appreciate the importance of communications until maybe you are into um inters or the senior term where you are doing company level attacks. And if you have no comms, you know, guess what? You're the runner, off you go. You are completely reliant on the ability to communicate for any level of command and control. Um, so I think you're probably the your understanding and your appreciation of comms develops as your time goes on. However, when you reach the senior term, you've already chosen your cat badge. Um, so I think from a raw signals perspective, yes, Bowman does exist in the core, but I personally, as a current serving officer, haven't touched Bowman since my troop commander's course. Really? Yeah. So 12 years. Yeah, wow. Um, and so, you know, um we plan and deliver the networks behind um being able to communicate with things like Bowman at a tactical level. Um, but the people on the ground using it primarily um our customers, which are maybe the infantry or you know, some of the other cat badgers. So I think if people are on the fence, like please don't hang your decision based on kind of what you do in the CIS wing, um, because everyone needs to learn how to use those uh radios, but that isn't really reflective of the raw signals. Um I think people who are on the fence, I think it's just a case of networking as best you can. Speak to speak to your staff because your staff, although maybe wearing a certain cat badge, I go back to the fact that they truly do want you to find your place. And so they could have a mate who's another colour sergeant or staff sergeant, or maybe your putting commander's got a mate and you know, assist a company that they can say, why don't you have a conversation with this person? You know, because the staff also have a, you know, they all have a vested interest in in in helping you out. So I think that's probably what my first. The second is to make an effort to go to as many um networking and drinks opportunities as you can, even if stuff's on the same evening and you're torn, just try and get to both. I think it's really important because actually a lot of figuring out where you should go is based on a feeling. It's like I can, oh, you know, oh, you know, oh, you're here. Like we get on really well. And oh, are you interested in the raw signals? Yeah, cool. Why? And you have a chat amongst peers and then you realise, oh, we've you know, we're similar people, we've got the same values, and I actually would really love to work alongside you. So there's that part of the puzzle, you know, who else is kind of considering it and thinking, well, we're essentially going to be teammates for a duration of time in our careers if we both go to the same place. And then on top of that, you know, the feeling of when you're engaging with people in the room and you know, are people giving you the time of day? Do you are you do you appreciate what they're saying? And you know, can you see yourself in a team with them? I think a lot of it is a feeling of you know, trusting your gut and trying to figure out what works.

SPEAKER_02 37:32

And I think that's really wise advice for any cat badge, by the way. Same with the infantry, because you might have a Royal Anglian instructor. I was asked this a little bit on Monday as well, like, what's the difference between the Royal Anglian and the Paras or whatever? And it's like, that's not for me to tell you, actually, that's for you to go and experience and go and have those conversations, and you'll find it out. It's not hard, you'll find it out and you'll prefer one or the other or whatever. Um, so yeah, even if it's the infantry cat badges where the roles are very similar, might be slightly different, but the roles are similar, but it's culture that you're going off. You have to go and speak to these people to see if that sort of fits. And if it's, you know, just a sister platoon or whatever, that will definitely help.

SPEAKER_00 38:09

Yeah, I think it's a feeling, like I actually think it's really hard to articulate. You know, what's the difference between X and Y? I don't know, like it's it's for you to go and decide that because I I have my opinion of it, but I don't want to project that onto you. So you go and figure it out, and then maybe we'll have a conversation about it afterwards, but I'm not gonna project what I think onto you because actually it's such a personal decision.

SPEAKER_02 38:33

Yeah, yeah, definitely. And actually, I I remember on the visit going on. Um, I went on uh both visits with actually someone in my platoon uh at Sandhurst, and I remember on one we did we on both we disagreed actually. Yeah, I had a really great time. He was like, it's not quite for me, and on the other one, same again. So, and that was based on you know it's the same role, yeah, infantry choices. So uh it very much is who you meet, what your the vibe is for for you. Okay, cool. I think we've done the sandthurst and the recruiting side. So hopefully for anyone going down that path, there's a lot of value in there on how to make that decision. Gonna flip back to the troop command stuff or or in fact operational experience or deployments, because you've had some really, really interesting ones. I'm leaning more towards Florida here, I think. Do you want to share a little bit on how that all came about?

SPEAKER_00 39:18

Yeah, sure. Um, so um I was a troop commander at 30th Signal Regiment, which they're they're known as the Globetrotters. And um I, you know, I alluded to the fact that I was aligned to 16th Brigade for my kind of bread and butter role. But at the end of my time, um the the regiment had a commitment um six-month tour tour um out to Tampa in Florida um that the troop commanders had the opportunity to rotate round, yeah, and the soldiers. So it was a small detachment of um, I think it was a a sergeant, um, a corporal, a couple of Lance corporals, and a troop commander. Um, and so the opportunity arose

Recruiting Truths And Finding Your Fit

SPEAKER_00 40:00

to go out there. And I actually had just passed my ski instructor course and I was like on a chairlift in Austria, and I had this message from Regimental Up saying, um, we need you to go to Tampa in February. Do you want to go? It was a good day. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, 100%. Good day in the call. Yeah, but then the April was saying something that even so yeah, obviously I said yes, and um uh uh off I went out to Tampa and um we worked for uh the senior British military advisor that sits in US Central Command. The gym was insane off the off the charts. Um and they really do army.

SPEAKER_02 40:37

They nail, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:38

And uh I guess when you're working multinationally, you know, um we have to have conversations, you know, do you support this activity? Do you not? Um, what's the British take on this, you know, etc. And for for us communicators, you know, we have to facilitate the the movement of that information back and forth. And whether that's you know, packs of information or verbal communication, you know, you your data or your um, you know, voice, um, you know, we're facilitating that all the time. And so it was really interesting. There was lots going on at the time that I was out there for. We did have some periods of kind of being in 24 hours, so it wasn't all, you know, sunshine and beaches. Um, but it was a really great opportunity because, you know, it came at the end of my treat command. So it was a really good time to kind of hone in and maybe reflect on the period of treat command that I'd just come from, um, gain the confidence to know, okay, I kind of know what I'm doing now. And also because of the time difference, you know, we were five hours behind. And so the UK wasn't always online to have support from. Um, and so you did have to think on your feet and you did have to trust your ability and your judgment and you know, employ some of the skills that you'd learn and harnessed from, you know, that all of the things that my troop taught me, um, you know, that I could pull forward and to being able to provide that um capability.

SPEAKER_02 42:03

You mentioned um there's sort of it took a bit of time and then you gained confidence from the first job into the next, etc. When do you think you started to become more comfortable with your own leadership style and sort of, I guess when did you feel like I'm really getting good at this? I feel like I'm adding a lot of value now.

SPEAKER_00 42:19

Oh, um I think there's probably like kind of snippets of time. I think sometimes it's when um you have a breakthrough with a soldier, maybe. Um, you know, I had I definitely had like one individual in my troop who I think was like, you're an entitled officer, and you know, I'm not gonna, I don't know if I really want to work for you. Um, and you know, he didn't know me, didn't know anything about me, but I'd made an assumption, as a lot of people can do, that maybe I was of a certain background and, you know, um, you know, I don't know, and and and therefore um that, you know, sometimes that relationship can be quite hard to forge. Um, other soldiers are kind of a bit more chill. And so I remember like having a breakthrough with the soldier where he went from being kind of quite distant and like a hard nut to crack to um kind of on side and you know really kind of went from a point of maybe being slightly difficult to really actively being proactive and working for me, which I really appreciated, but it took time. And for me, it wasn't anything big, it was just these small wins, and lots of them were around people and and actually really helping people. Um, had a soldier who um unfortunately um was suicidal at a point, and um I remember that he'd had a particularly difficult evening, and he came in the next day and um, you know, had a one on one with him because he'd asked for it, and he sat and cried and, you know, told me how difficult, you know, things were for him at that moment in time. And at that moment, you know, I was in my uniform and I was doing my job, and I did what that individual needed me to do for him, you know, look after him, safeguard, have conversations that I needed to have. And give him all the support that I needed. And then that evening, you know, I remember being in my room in the mess, and another of the troopies came to have a chat to talk through what happened that day. And, you know, I was quite emotional about it because, you know, it's a lot to take on as someone like young in your 20s. But then I was also really reflective in that I was so grateful that I'd created a safe space for that soldier to come and speak to me. And that for me was such a win, you know. So I think that those little snippets and little events that you kind of um are exposed to through your career, they're the bits that you know you've made it. Like it's not about, oh, this was written on a report.

SPEAKER_02 44:38

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:39

Well, so what? You know, like actually what impact are you having on your team, you know? And um, and I got to the end, towards the end of Troop Command, and we had um, we would get, you know, when we were going away on exercise, and sometimes we would have to backfill the troop because maybe we didn't have enough people or people were kind of elsewhere. And um, you know, we'd have people actively volunteering to come and deploy with the troop, which again was really reassuring that we were doing something right, you know. Me and my seniors, we'd created a really strong culture where people were really, really happy to come and deploy on exercise with us, which again like tick VG because Yeah, I think it speaks volumes, right?

SPEAKER_02 45:14

And I think that's actually probably really summarized why officers like having soldiers and why when you don't have soldiers because you move into a staff job, or it changes a bit why actually you miss it so much, and it's not because it's your own well, it is it's your train set and you can do what you want within reason, but actually I think you can see the value there and then where it's potentially in a staff role, it's slightly different in terms of the value that you're adding.

SPEAKER_01 45:39

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 45:39

You mentioned a couple of things there, and I think because I post a lot on social media, uh, you you see some really good stuff and and some more negative views of officers, and I've become way more aware of it, I think, uh, just from seeing stuff online. And I'm not here to discredit anyone's um experience, and as we all know, there's good and bad in every role in every walk of life. Um, however, there is definitely a negative uh view from some cohorts of soldiers of officers, and I kind of always explain it like this is that's up to the next generation or of the officer cohort to change. So there's only one way to change that, and that's actually by delivering really good leadership. And what you see, you know, uh to the individual, sometimes it's different per for the person, and I think it's quite easy to lump, oh, I'm this type of leader, and that's how I treat my team. It's like, well, actually, there's nuance to it, and people need a different thing. I know from when I was at Cataric, you mentioned sort of um mental health issues. There were genuine cases, and that takes a completely different style of leadership. And there were some cases where you were like, This is not genuine, you obviously have to follow the process, but it's so frustrating when you when you think this person's playing the system because they don't want to go here or they don't want to do that. Uh, and that's actually another leadership challenge because you know you can tell Corporal so-and-so uh to follow the system, but he's raging. Yeah, you're like, Oh god, I'm gonna have to manage this. So um I think you sort of summarised actually that that value that you're having really well. That's definitely how I reflect on my time. Was you're right, it's not necessarily the report or an amazing attack that you've done or anything. It's I've really had that influence over this person at any level when a private soldier's gonna be different to a sergeant. Yeah, you're not necessarily gonna tell a sergeant how to do all the tactics stuff. You'd hope they assume that, uh, know that by then. But you could show them a different way of I don't know, report writing seems a bit lame thing, but it could be or them to take their career to the next level.

SPEAKER_00 47:32

Yeah, I think it just comes back to knowing your people, doesn't it? And um, I think that leadership styles, you know, you know, I think, you know, lots of people have written all sorts of important um, you know, things about leadership, but I think actually it's all unique to everybody, and you know, whether you're transactional or transformational or or you know, whatever label you want to put on it, sometimes I think that, you know, do we have to have a label there? Because actually we should adapt our leadership to circumstance, to the people that we have, and also, you know, what is and isn't appropriate at the time. And um, I have an example of um I guess another moment that uh like a really difficult example uh a difficult situation that I had to deal with when I was an instructor at Harrogut. And um I think I would maybe define my leadership style at that point as kind of leading through vulnerability and um, you know, being vulnerable with your team and showing them that you are a human being as well. You know, sometimes you don't have all of the answers, right? Like, you know, when you're at the academy, every single time you're asked a question by the DS, you think that you've got to have an answer or the answer, whatever it is. You know, you might be asked about an acronym or, you know, how are you gonna do a platoon attack? Are you gonna go left flanking or right flanking or whatever it is? But you you're posed a question and you know that somewhere there's a right answer. The real, the reality when you're actually leading is that sometimes you just don't have the answer. You you don't, and actually you maybe need the condor moment to be like, oh, I don't know what I'm gonna do here. Like, gosh. And at that time, you know, sometimes the best thing that you can do is to be vulnerable with your team and say, I don't know, but this is what I need from you right now. And I like please trust me and that I will get a solution to this problem. I think that's really important because I think that, you know, as a junior officer, you can put yourself under loads of pressure to always have the answers and then maybe feel like you failed if you don't. Um, and the reality is is that sometimes the right answer just isn't there yet, and you, you know, you need to get to a point um where you find it.

SPEAKER_02 49:43

Yeah, you've talked through the difference between my first and second job. Yeah. Pretty much like first job. Um, I got off to a bit of a rough start for reasons I won't go into here, but like the platoon, it was it wasn't working as what what I wanted it to be. However, I then felt the pressure to be right all the time, and sometimes I was searching for answers that just weren't there and actually should have been way more honest. And I had some really good soldiers, so I could have just you know asked them for a bit more support at certain times. I'm not saying I never did that, but I I could have done that a lot more. And then when I went and took over my next platoon at the infantry training centre, I was much more comfortable, and I don't really know what the shift was, probably a bit more experienced. I'd been on operations as as well by that time, and I just felt a lot more comfortable in my own skin. Yeah, I thought I I suddenly realised the value that I was bringing and my weak areas, yeah. So I also think you you get exposed to more leaders, and I saw the really good ones, sometimes in a no group or a meeting or whatever, just go, I don't know. And it it didn't make me view them any less of a leader. And I thought, well, that's really powerful. Yeah. So what if I do that with my section commanders? And actually, if I don't know, like they might know, or they're actually pretty good at getting answers as well. Um, and it's a team thing, and I think I sort of summarise it with you know, as an officer, you're not you're not your your job isn't actually to be right, it's just to do the right thing and try and get the right answer. And you that might not be your answer, it might be someone else's, but you've got to play to it. Yeah, and I think that the vulnerability piece is really important. We sort of had a coffee before and spoke about um mental health, which we might touch on, but um I won't go into too much, but essentially uh a few years back, some uh absolute warrior uh sadly took their own life in in our battalion, and um I didn't know this person anywhere near as much as as much as others, and it like really shook the battalion, right? And I remember off the back of that, some very senior people came out and spoke about their own mental health um struggles at certain times. And I thought you've got these, you know, in very this case, war-hardened blokes coming out that are openly speaking about that. I thought it was incredible, and what that does to a junior soldier to suddenly go, you know, especially in the infantry at times, men aren't great at about speaking at this. Uh obviously the the infantry does have women in now, but it's still male-heavy. Yeah, and to see

Tampa Detachment And Working With US Command

SPEAKER_02 52:01

inspiring leaders come out and go, do you know what? This is something I'm struggling with, uh, and this is how you should go and handle it, yeah, instead of potentially the other route, uh, was really uh interesting to see. And I think that is leading with that vulnerability as well.

SPEAKER_00 52:15

Yeah, I think um it gives people the safe space to be vulnerable to. Um, and I also think sometimes people, as you say, like just respect you for it, you know. And um, my platoon at the time were all budding infanters and there were like 16-year-old legends that had just, you know, um come at come into um Harrogut and um and actually I think that it in some ways pulled the platoon together. I think there was um, you know, I think there was a point in which they could have become quite fractured with big differences in opinions and um, you know, it pulled them together and we actually went from um, you know, the lowest performing platoon in the company to um the highest in in the intake. And yeah, and it was it was so rewarding to see because and I truly think that was such a turning point because I basically said to them at that point we'd had um uh a number of the um the the team staff had um you know had moved on from the um platoon and we were left with a bit of a skeleton initially and were eventually backfilled. But at the time I'd kind of lost a lot of my training team and I kind of said, you know, I don't know what's coming, but I I I don't have any capacity to deal with anything other than getting you through the next couple of weeks of the course. And I really need you to work for me and with me to make that happen. And I don't have the capacity to deal with any nonsense, you know, like this is you know, this is the train track we're on, and you know, we're going in this direction, and like please will you come with me? Yeah, I didn't have the answers, and and it wasn't some grand speech, it was just me being truly vulnerable, you know, in a really difficult situation that we found ourselves to say, Hey, I I acknowledge this is really crap and like I can't do anything about it, but I'm still here and I'm still gonna work for you, but I need you to work for me too. You know, that goes both ways, and um, it was really rewarding, really, really rewarding, and um and it was uh it was a joy to see you know the the change in direction of the platoon and you know for them to kind of reach their potential and you know be really united and actually enjoy the training and what they were doing as well because they were doing it as a collective, as in a team, so yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:24

When you when you feel like you've got that buy-in, it really is yeah, yeah. You're doing it right. And I think what we're discussing here is really difficult leadership challenges, and we haven't mentioned war.

SPEAKER_01 54:36

No, do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 54:37

And I think that's sometimes forgotten is okay, yeah. Obviously, it's a war fighting organisation. Um, pretty outspoken about if you're joining, especially at the moment with some of the the global risks. I think you should really have that in mind that you'd be prepared to go and do that in some capacity, whatever whatever unit you're joining. But don't get it twisted, like there's still loads of challenges that you'll experience. Yeah. Uh that, you know, arguably, I never went to war, so I don't want to speak out of turn here, but arguably could be harder in some circumstances because the mission might not always be as clear and it might not feel as real at times, I would say, um, when you're delivering training or or whatever, you've got these issues, but uh it's dealing with people's lives, and you know, as we were sort of talking before, the stakes are such in that line of work that human risk is always there. Yeah. And you've just got to be, you know, try and manage that as best as you can, I guess. Great. Okay, so we in fact, maybe just to touch on um, because you mentioned sort of Harrogate there uh and dealing with young soldiers. Uh one of the questions I wanted to ask you is so in in that platoon, everyone's going to different units?

SPEAKER_00 55:44

Yeah, so we're all teeth arm. Okay, so they're all teeth arm.

SPEAKER_02 55:47

So you've worked with technical soldiers and you've worked with teeth arm soldiers. Uh what do you say the difference between their character or the type of person they are?

SPEAKER_00 55:56

I don't know really about kind of character and type of person because I think that um lots of people who come and join this organization want to be part of something bigger than themselves, you know. And, you know, whether that's, you know, being in the infantry or being a Royal Signals soldier, um, I think like fundamentally they're they're joining to be part of the army. And, you know, that's why people become officers as well, and then they find their niche. Um, I think for a Royal Signals soldier, I wouldn't want to say that they're more professional, but their profession is different. And um, you know, uh we have a variety of different trades, and you know, they're becoming more and more technical, I guess, as the kind of tech world fasts forwards, and you know, we're we're we're definitely trying to keep up with with them. Um, and you know, some of these individuals are really, really high performing but in different ways, and you know, their mind maybe works a bit differently to how an infantry um kind of soldier would. Um, and some of them are super technical but also super green, and they work in organizations that um get that balance of both. And so they might have to be parachute trained and have gone and done P Company, but on top of that, they've got a specialism of delivering communications. Um, or um, you know, they might be um uh working um within actually, I think it's the largest regiment in the army, um, our special forces regiment. And so they're going and doing a selection course um alongside the special forces, and on top of that, they're learning and understanding how to be a communicator in that space and being able to deliver on side, you know, their counterparts in the various um different functions um within UKSF. So um I think that um our kind of branding is soldier first technical always, um, which you know some people maybe don't like, but the reality is that we all join at some point and go through our version of infantry training, whether that's a Sandhurst, Harrogate, or maybe through Perb, the Purbright um route. And then on top of that, then you add get the added layer of a trade. And I guess in the infantry, you have your specialisms of maybe um mortars or like machine gun, etc. etc., and they get or recce, you know, you go down those those routes and they're kind of where you would specialise. And then for us, you know, we have our different trades, and maybe you become an electronic warfare specialist, or you are a communications planner, or you're a network, you know, technician. Um, and we've got a cyber trade

Mental Health Moments And Earning Trust

SPEAKER_00 58:30

that's coming online, you know, towards the end of this year. And so, you know, as a soldier, they're you know highly proficient and technical. And as they move through their careers, they become more and more qualified. And, you know, they could become a yeoman or a foreman of signals, which um, you know, a normally staff sergeant rank and are you know at the top, top of their game when it comes to their trade. Um and so as an officer, you know, as I said kind of before, you have to just be, you know, interested in that space and be able to understand kind of what they do and be interested and be able to support. And as you move through an officer career, um, which we can touch on a bit, um, you can you can become as technical as you want to be. And there's lots of opportunities to do that. And so you can go down a route where you primarily do, you know, cyber and EW, and that's your specialism, and that's what you want to go and do. Um, we've got um, there's an AI task force that's just stood up working from main building, and we've got some deep SMEs working within that um that from an EW and cyber background, um, you know, there's there's heavy raw signals involvement in that space, as you can imagine.

SPEAKER_02 59:39

They'll be so rich when they leave the army.

SPEAKER_00 59:40

Yeah, yeah. Like it's a very cool thing for your TV, right? But you know, for so for some people who think, well, really interested in tech, what are the opportunities as an officer? Because it sounds like the soldiers get all of the training. Like, what do we get? Well, there's so much out there within our core and cat badge that, you know, it's kind of there for you to take. And so you can go through and do, you know, um, a pathway of cyber qualifications that are civilian accredited. And so you've got that accreditation and you know, the core has looked after you and brought into you in that space. You can do master's degrees, you know, you could become a chartered IT professional at some point in your career or a chartered engineer. So, you know, there's there's a lot of options, you know, if you want to become um professionally qualified in the technical space. Um, for me personally, I've done lots of different things. And so I guess my experience ranges from um, you know, uh recruiting and training through to defense engagement and um like ops support, ops delivery. Um, I guess some people would say I've remained a generalist, but I have a maths degree, and so my brain is technical, which is why I'm in the core and I really am proud to serve in the Royal Signals, but I have that technical grounding while I've had the opportunity to branch into a whole variety of different spaces within the military. And I think as you know, my career evolves, maybe I'll become more specialist as I as I want to. But you know, as a major, I'm still kind of exploring all the options.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:12

Yeah, great, awesome. Now I want to move on a little bit. So so I get uh quite a lot of questions from young women that are considering a career, or actually even their parents that are considering oh, their daughters have expressed an interest in the military. And I mean, let's not sketch around it, there's been some high-profile incidents in the news, but I've always feel quite uncomfortable sharing that experience because it's not my experience, right? Um, so whilst I've got you, I'd love to know how your experience has been and how you feel uh as a as a serving female officer and how that journey's been for you. Any positives, any negatives, however you really want to sort of take that question.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:50

So I obviously It's a big one. Yeah, it's a big one. Thanks. I guess so. I obviously started in a female platoon, so was constantly um surrounded by kind of other really driven women who um, you know, had gone through the academy in order to, you know, start a career in the military. And then in the Royal Signals, like we do have quite a good um balance of women, which you know is quite nice. And um, you know, at the moment we have every rank bar two and three star from signaller all the way up to four-star general represented as a female in in the Royal Signals, which is which is amazing. And so I think, you know, as a woman who's serving, you have all these role models as well that exist that are on a variety of different ranks. So you know there's a direction of travel there, which is which is really helpful and really nice to see. And then I guess the way that we get treated, you know, my approach is fundamentally regardless of my gender, like I'm an officer serving, you know, a person. And then, you know, my gender is, you know, on top of that. And um, you know, I my experience has been mixed at points, but I think that through communicating, and whether that's just with other females or just other people, and especially if something's been particularly difficult to then work through to a solution is really important. And, you know, I think that it it you know you can feel quite isolated, and I know that lots of people do, but I also think that happens in all walks of life as well. And I I don't think that it's just you know an organizational problem. And actually, um I really feel that I thrive as a woman in defense and as a woman in the army. And I think that that's because um actually the organization is very, very aware of um, you know, the maybe underrepresentation that people could argue of of female serving. And I think that they do what they can, they truly do to support. And there's lots and lots of networks that exist, whether that's you know, like a parenting network or networks to support kind of breastfeeding or women going through the menopause, or, you know, basically through lots of stages of your career, there's there's lots of touch points in the networking space and the kind of mentoring space to kind of look after you and allow you that space to talk if you need it. Um, and then the way that I approach and have approached kind of my um my role and my time in the military as a female has been to um, you know, quite often I go into a room and I am the only female, you know, my floor plate that I work on now, I'm the only serving female on the floor plate. So um I I work with lots of female civil servants, but from a military perspective, like I am the only woman on the floor plate. But it's not something that I particularly worry about right now because I try and change it into an opportunity. And so instead of kind of approaching a meeting where I'm walking into a room and there's loads loads of males, I think, well, there is loads of males, but my voice sounds different because I'm a woman. And so I think there's opportunity in a lot of times in a lot of moments where your voice truly can be heard because it's different. And I try and kind of harness that, or that's how I try and approach things because I'm a very glasswal kind of individual individual. And I know that for some people it can be a really tricky thing to navigate, and I'm absolutely not undermining that. But for my mindset change and kind of how I approach being a woman in defense is to say, well, we are a minority, and so I approach that as well, I'm different, and so therefore, maybe there's an opportunity to say something and someone to hear me. Um, and that could be like trivial, you know, just in a low-level meeting, because actually when you refer back to a meeting, you're like, oh God, who said that? Well, actually, it might be, oh, um, Catherine said that because, you know, I'm a woman, and so therefore, naturally you kind of remember if that makes sense, as opposed to insert, you know, whichever may or may may or may not be present. Um, but don't get me wrong, like there's definitely been times in my career, you know, when I was deployed in Somalia, I think I was the only female in theatre for about 10 weeks. And let me tell you, I was so sick of boy chat, like so sick, and I am so glad that voice notes exist. Because I was voice noting the girls like back home, like, oh my god, this chat is terrible. Um, so yeah, you know, there there are moments where you know you become very aware of it because maybe at that moment in time in your career, you know, that's circumstantial and you know, that's kind of what you're faced with. But I truly enjoy serving. I'm really proud to serve and really, really grateful for the opportunity. And I don't think that my gender has held me back in any way. And I yeah, I try and see it as a positive.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:28

Yeah, definitely. And I I think, you know, maybe if it's operationally focused, perhaps there's there's less of what I'm about to say. But uh particularly, you know, from an infantry perspective where most of the time in my career uh my platoons were were male only. And then when we started to get um women into the platoons, you know, we were we weren't guessing, but we actually had female input into how to do it safely. Uh safely is the wrong word, but in terms of like consideration. Yeah, right. And we had a fantastic SART major uh come and basically sit in in uh in some of the meetings as that. So this happened when I was at Catarick, so we were about to take female recruits in. Yeah, and it was

Being A Woman Officer In Defence

SPEAKER_02 1:07:10

quite funny because my section commander at the time had all been in the army for quite a long time, obviously only ever worked with blokes, and uh it was all fine, and then as soon as it actually happened, I saw them like it just freeze a couple of times to be like, how do I communicate with this person? What is it? And I was like, let's just relax. Like it's it's normal. But we had female influence. My point being we need good females in the system to educate because if you're like me and have had probably a very masculine upbringing, then you just might not be aware of it. And sometimes that's simple things like language, yeah, which I'm still fing awful at, to be honest with you, hence the swear words and always referring to soldiers as blokes, uh, which I'm working on, but I mean it in the gender-neutral term, bloke. Uh so that's one side, and then there's the other things. I remember that you know, things like uh sanitary bins or whatever that we just hadn't considered because it's a room full of men.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:00

And I think those simple things make a huge difference to someone's first experience to the army. Yeah. And I think actually it's it's not just about having women, it's about having good women in roles where they can speak out if things aren't right. I think that's really important.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:12

Yeah. I think fundamentally, you know, regardless of you know what gender you are, um, the thing that the thing where you earn your respect is just by being good at your job and by being a good human being. That's it, like regardless of your background or you know, what gender you are, etc. etc. You know, do you turn up to work in good order? Do your team know that they're you're going to work for them and they're going to get the best from you and you're going to get the best from them? And you know, do you do it with confidence and and with you know that proficiency that you should have in whatever trade or cat badge you are? I think that's the most important thing. Um and I think that's where you that's where you earn and gain respect and credibility, um, you know, regardless. And you know, maybe we are in a in the spotlight to a degree. I think that kind of probably goes without saying, but yeah, I I definitely try not to see it as a barrier and more of an opportunity. I think it's just a healthier way of trying to approach it.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:08

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And you know, look, we we share our own experiences on these things. That's what I I do all the time. So there are absolutely people out there with different experiences to me and you. Absolutely. So we're not discrediting that, but we can only talk about our own experiences. Totally. Fantastic. We are rapidly coming towards the end. So I always like to say, like, firstly, is there anything that you'd like to add that we've not covered that you we should do in the remaining time? If not, then any advice to I guess either young women joining or if you're looking to go down the Royal Signals route or even just joining as a young officer at the moment.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:40

You know, when I joined and probably the same as you, we were kind of coming off the back of Herrick, and actually it it kind of ended as we were at the academy. But I think we're probably much busier or just as busy right now in what a lot of people would consider peacetime, and we're trying to do a lot more with a lot less. And so, you know, if you're worried or unsure about, you know, are we gonna go and join the army and just kind of sit and not do an awful lot? Absolutely not. And I think there's so many opportunities out there that you have to just go and take. And, you know, I I've mentioned like sport and AT, and I think they're just like two incredible opportunities that should absolutely be exploited when serving because they add value in different ways. And I know that uh you and Tori delved into that um on your previous podcast. And I think, you know, I'm a huge advocate for that. So I think, you know, on joining, consider the full offer and like the bigger picture, what else is out there, and you know, try and exploit it as you can. The approach to kind of leadership is just do what's true to you and your own values and understand what your own values are. You know, for me, about to go into subunit command, you know, things that are really important to me as an individual are humility, authenticity, and and the power of communication, talking, you know, and and I think that um for those people who struggle and are trying to kind of be someone that they think they should be and not be true to themselves. I think one, people can see straight through that. And that goes for someone's approach to maybe a regimental selection board and they're trying to be, you know, um what they think a cat badge wants to see of them, and and actually it's not really in line with who they really are. People can see through it and actually you get judged for it. Um, I think humility is super important in a space where we're a collective team, and most often you cannot achieve your job without the help of somebody else. Like fundamentally you can't. And so I really think it's important to know that someone has the humility to let the chain of command know, or whoever they're reporting to you know, oh, I did this, and you know, they say tick VG, well done. But I couldn't

Values, Humility And Final Advice

SPEAKER_00 1:11:50

have done it without the support from XYZ. And knowing that someone's in the room shouting your praises is, and you know, and you will do that for the other person is so powerful when it comes to, you know, generating really positive cultures and really effective teams, and then communicating, you know, early so that people can get after problems quickly. And if that's, you know, you're a young platoon commander or troop commander and you've you've fed up or you've missed something or something's gone wrong, just tell someone. People aren't really going to be that bothered about it. And what they probably will want to do is help you unpick a difficult situation. And if you don't know the answer to the question, don't force an answer because you think you should, because that may be what the academy's kind of encouraged you to do. Take your condor moment and then ask for help and pause before you react. So yeah, I think for me personally, those three things are really, really important outside of you know the army's values and standards. And they're things that I've probably discovered as I've moved through my career. Yeah. But I think personally they're like my nuggets of advice in in the way to approach every job, you know, with authenticity, humility, and you know, talking to your people.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:01

Yeah, I think I definitely hear you. And I think I I completely agree. I think the authenticity takes a while to figure out what that is for you. Absolutely. Uh it took me probably a couple of years when I was at Cataric, then I started to feel really comfortable. And I just kind of realised that my own leadership style is pretty relaxed most of the time and relatively informal. And I would say that even though I count myself as pretty professional, I think that's uh represented in my cat badge. Yeah, we're all pretty informal with each other, it's quite relaxed. We get on like really well with the soldiers, and I'd have it no other way. Regularly get messages from from like soldiers that are just now mates, which is really nice. But I think at the start I was trying to figure out exactly how I delivered that until it became more natural. So I definitely hear you on that. And I completely agree in terms of sort of the I'm convinced that sort of communication is probably the number one skill for a leader because if you're there to inspire people, you need to be able to tap into different ways, and it's all through the your powers of communication for most of the time. Fantastic, awesome. Well, look, pretty much on the dot. That's not bad going, is it? Look, thanks very much for coming in and sharing. I know a lot more about the Royal Signals than I did uh an hour and a half ago, so I really appreciate it. I hope it's been valuable for you guys listening or watching on YouTube. If this sort of stuff is useful for you, you can click like and subscribe, you can click the bell so you're notified every time I upload a video. That stuff really helps me out. And if you've got questions, please do put them in the comments box. I'll do my best to help answer. If not, then I'm sure I can get some help uh to answer them as well. And yeah, thanks very much for watching. See you next week with a brand new video in a bit.