What a Squadron Commander REALLY wants from New Officers?! | Ollie Braithwaite

The fastest way to spot shaky leadership is to watch what happens when people are cold, tired, and under pressure. That’s where the real habits show up, for better or worse.

We sit down with Ollie, a former British Army major with 20 years’ service, to unpack what actually builds strong junior leaders from Sandhurst onwards. He shares blunt lessons from RoCo, why “negative motivation” collapses fast, and how fitness isn’t just about passing tests, it’s about buying yourself time to think. We also get practical on planning: why plans fail, why planning still matters, and how better courses of action make you more adaptable on the ground and in civilian life.

From there we go into career reality: choosing roles, understanding promotion systems, dealing with setbacks, and learning to ask smarter questions rather than pretending you know everything. Ollie explains what bosses really want from new platoon commanders: be thoughtful, bring character and care, and work hard while enjoying the journey.

Finally, we connect leadership development with intelligent self-protection through Ollie’s business, Absolute Defence, including conflict debt, productivity, and small security habits that make you safer and more effective when travelling for work.

If you found this useful, subscribe, share it with someone who’s stepping into leadership, and leave a review on Spotify or your podcast app.

Transcript

Meet Ollie: Infantry Platoon Commander to Cavalry Squadron Commander

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Whoever came up with it would have been exceptional at torture. I wouldn't be surprised if it was somehow illegal. You need to sort out the way you motivate people because it's quite apparent it's not working. What you need to do is you need to be running 16 miles a week. And I was like, how far? I was loving life. It suddenly dawned on me I'm going to be in an office forever. That filled me with dread. And I was like, the army's the way.

SPEAKER_03 0:25

Guys, welcome back to the Army Bloke podcast. Welcome back to the Lessons in Leadership series. And today my guest has served for 20 years in the military. He was a British Army major, so served as a squadron commander, commissioned into the infantry, and now has his own business when it comes to leadership development and also self-defence, which I can't wait to hear about. So, Ollie, thanks very much for joining today, mate. Yeah. Good to meet you.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

Yeah, so I commissioned into the Green Jackets, uh, first commissioned officers of uh the new millennium with with my compadres at Sandhurst, which was which was uh quite cool, I thought. You know, it's just sort of one of the things to tell your grandkids later on. Um, and then uh that became the rifles, and then I was given the opportunity to be the dismounted close combat expert in uh uh in a in a Queen's Dragoon guards, so a cavalry, light cavalry setting, because you're in jackal and therefore you're you're dismounting quite a lot. So they wanted a dismounted close combat expert. Um, so now always one of their squadron commanders is a uh is an is an infantry uh uh officer. So interesting. So I was the only the second sort of draft, if you like, um of of infantry officer to do that. Um and uh and uh obviously with the light dragoons, the Scots DG and the QDG. Oh nice um uh as the three light light cavalry units. So I got a really interesting view from an infantry perspective on how the cavalry do things. Uh interestingly, one of the chaps from uh uh one of one of my best corporals actually was an ex-green jacket as well. Uh and we'd served together in two RGJ like about a decade before. So it was amazing. Oh, cleaning, nice.

SPEAKER_03 2:16

Yeah, what is this mythical beast that is the cavalry? I guess. What do they really do? Um awesome. Okay, well, let's start

Choosing The Army At Fourteen

SPEAKER_03 2:24

at the start. Yeah, why did you join the army? Was it always on the cards? How'd it come about?

SPEAKER_01 2:28

Yeah, so I remember the exact moment I made the decision, and that was I was 14 years old. I was in my uh school CCF, uh Gresham School in Norfolk, and we were in Warkop on our summer sort of camp, and I was out in the sunshine, you know, with a with an actual weapon and like five rounds of blanks, and I was loving life. And I it suddenly dawned on me that when I left school, that's it. I'm gonna be in an office forever. And uh I just thought, okay, I don't want to do that. That sounds like filled me with dread. And I was like, right, the army's the way. Um and uh and so yeah, that was that was the way forward from there. And why an officer? Was that like a conscious decision you made, or did you just uh no? I think that was just the expectation. You know, you go to to I think particularly private school, um, then you go to university, and then if you go into the army, you'll you're going to you're going as an officer, that's just the way it is. Yeah. Um, and so I did have some uh there was a chap in a year or two below me who joined the paras as a as a trooper, as a paratrooper, and um and uh and there were other people in my battalion actually who went to private school that then joined as soldiers who then did really well. Um and I'm not saying that if you had a private school, you're more intelligent. That's not at all the case at all, but he was more intelligent, yeah. Um and uh and did and did really well at it. So it's it's not a defined thing. It was frankly, it was just a I thought that's what you did. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's I'm sort of making it sound like it was um it was uh it was a real conscious effort, but it wasn't. It was just like that's clearly where I that's what you do, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 4:20

Felt more natural. You mentioned Warcop there as well, and I was just trying to think back as to why I know the name, but it's in near Catarick, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, not too far away. Yeah, I remember so I was in uh Catarick during COVID, and my platoon spent like I don't know, like four months living in Warcop when they were like trying to segregate over basics.

SPEAKER_02 4:39

Like, yeah, I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_03 4:42

Yeah, I I didn't join them, I'll be honest. Yeah, stay in the mess. Yeah, yeah, very sensible. Good stuff. Okay, so and that was your trajectory then. So went to university, and then at what point did you do I'm not a selection poet?

SPEAKER_01 4:54

Uh so I had in a slightly more alternative way. My my father died when I was 18, uh a month and a half before my A levels. Uh so I face planted into A levels with and I was just not in the right space at all. So I didn't do as well as I could have done at A levels. I then went to university where I really wasn't ready to have the safety rails taken off. And so I didn't, I'm a thicking non-grad. I did a couple of first years at university, had an exceptional time, but uh but didn't get a degree. Um, and uh and I thought, you know what? I've always wanted to join the army, I've got the the grades, GCCs and A levels, I'm gonna go join the army, that's what I want to do. And so I then went to uh AOSB after that, um the sort of or regular commissions board as it was back in the day, um, and then you know, pre-RCB and then RCB. Nice. Um so from there, yeah. Cool.

Brutal Rowallan Company

SPEAKER_01 5:51

And then at what point did Roel and Company happen? Well, the infamous, notorious. Yeah, so I did the regular commissions board and then got the letter and got a ROCO pass, and I was like, I've heard about this. I gen genuine fear came over me. Um luckily it was before I'd been on a visit um to uh to one RGJ actually at the time, and um and there was a chap within one RGJ, he'd done Royal and Company, and he just went, right, it is hard. It is he he was actually he actually actually undercooked how bad it was, but I was still like oh my god, this is awful. And um he said, What you need to do is you need to be running 16 miles a week. And I was like, How far? You know, I'd sort of never done never done that amount of running. I'd done sort of three miles, four miles. I'd I'd I liked running, I was massively into my rugby and uh and and and various other things. I was an athlete, an athlete of sprinting and hurdles and stuff like that. So I loved running, loved being outside, loved love fizz and and and getting amongst it. So I was like, okay, Roger that. And I did, you know, I did four milers a week. And that was one of the best pieces of advice he gave me because you know, lots of people don't talk about Ryland Company because they go, you know, it's for the for the for the Muppets, yeah, it's for people who can't do it. And uh, but it gave me an incredible amount of resilience. Just you are, I mean, whoever came up with it would have been exceptional at torture. It was unbelievable. I mean, I I I think I I as far as I know, they still don't they don't do it now. It stopped and and and quite some time ago. Uh, and I'm I wouldn't be surprised if it was somehow illegal. Yeah, even even even after you've signed your rights away, you know, it's sort of like, no, this is this is too much. Um, because you know, we you just didn't know what you were doing. You were told where to be, what order of kit, and you're like, well, it's eight o'clock in the morning, I've got to be in Fizz kit. We're probably gonna be back for lunch. So it could be a four-hour PT session, um, or or not. But I very quickly learnt if you get to the front, then at some point they've got to slow down to wait for the people at the back. And that was a genius thing to have worked out quite early on because it meant that, you know, right, just absolutely go all out to be at the front. Yeah. And uh or or or at least within grabbing distance of the front. Yeah. Um, and they will always string you out. It was always, you know, even the people at the front were dropping back by the time they started to slow down because they wanted to push you outside your comfort blows.

SPEAKER_03 8:43

Such a such a good tip for anyone that's heading to Sandhurst or there now is actually the first half of the of the run is the worst. Yeah. Because it feels like it's going to go on forever. Yeah. There'll be a water stop somewhere. Yeah. They will slow the pace at some point. You just gotta make sure you're at the back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But if you're at the back, learn to get to the front because you're not going to be able to do that. I remember actually that first bit of a tab as well. This starts to fade a little bit as you've done it more, but especially at the start, it's handhers. Your shins are just like in absolute um just warming up. So Roel and Company, that is a course before the commissioning course, right?

SPEAKER_01 9:18

So, yeah, it was a character and leadership development course. More character, less leadership. Oh my goodness. Yeah, yeah. I uh yeah, did I learn any leadership on there? Uh not really. I mean, no, to be fair, no, I I I was barking at somebody to get up and forward um because uh she was lagging back. She was actually my battle buddy, and we're we're we're good mates now, and she's she's a legend. Um and uh and um and I was just like all negative, it was all bad. And uh and luckily, Colour Sergeant Elms, Dutch Elms, the uh you know, legend who uh that was Dutch Elms, this this skeletonic figure of just grit, you know, grit and granite. Um he just he just said, come here. He went, you need to sort out the way you motivate people, because that is not A is not working, you could it's quite apparent it's not working, and B, that's not how you motivate people. Yeah, and that was a real a real leadership lesson. Um, and and I suppose the leading from the front perspective, and you've talked about before on your podcast, and uh, and it's you know that's a really important thing as well, you know, having the fitness to be up there, you know, it's great. People saying, Oh yeah, but I'm an officer, it's all about you know, it's as much about this as it is about this. But it's like if you're not in the right place and in a in a good enough physical state to be able to engage this, then you you that it doesn't matter how good that is because you're not you're just not there. Yeah. Um, and that's

Fitness As A Leadership Advantage

SPEAKER_01 11:00

actually where you know what we're doing now with absolute defense and and and working out um right, how do we make this function better so that people can make better decisions for themselves from a security perspective, but actually from a performance and leadership perspective, you know, because that that is really where it's at. You know, we've got a big issue in this country, as we know, as the prime minister's talked about with productivity and you know, there's this anxiety epidemic, and um, and I think actually a different approach to how we're doing things is probably what's needed, and that's what we do.

SPEAKER_03 11:37

So it's really interesting, especially that sort of transactional approach to leadership. Yeah, because we were having a coffee before, I sort of explained like I think that was very much my experiences, it were especially in the early days of Sandhurst, is I'm joining the army, therefore, this is the leadership that I'll exhibit, and this is what's expected. And especially if you've got, you know, your colour sergeant who's God at that point in your life, um, pulling you to one side and going, actually, you know, all the stereotypes I'm sure this person has as well of being that, you know, quite intimidating senior NCO uh who could ruin your life quite easily and kill you with a look, yeah, but all of a sudden going, be less negative, and actually motivation looks different. I think it's really interesting. I sort of I shared that when I was at Sandhurst a few weeks back, uh, there were a few guys that that hung around at the end to ask a question and it was about how do we increase the standard of the platoon because we feel like we can go a little bit further and get more out of everyone. And if I was there in that platoon feeling that I know at that time at Sandhurst, my approach would have been start shouting and screaming at people on exercise or fizz or whatnot and whatnot. And actually, now with a bit more experience on my back, it's like that will not get you a result because you're a peer. So like they're just gonna rod you off.

SPEAKER_04 12:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 12:54

Like, don't shout at me with the same fucking rank. So actually, this needs to be different, and it's all about like it's shifting it into positive mindset. And I think you know, you were saying that there's a time and a place for for all of that. Yeah. Um, I had my old RSM on here a few a couple of months back, and he sort of Steve Arman. Yeah, legends. Yeah, there's uh there's two, there's two times you should be shouting. One is in combat and the other's in a nightclub. And I thought that's great. I wish someone had told me that on day one. It would have taken the weight off a bit. Oh, yeah. Um great advice. But that's very true, especially when it comes to motivating. If someone is having a bad time of it, they know they're having a bad time.

SPEAKER_01 13:32

They don't need other people to be like you're like, yeah, exactly. I'm already at the back in absolute turmoil. I do not need you destroying any remnants of psychological positivity I've got.

SPEAKER_03 13:45

I think the the running aspect as well, uh, as you were saying that, I was like, yeah, I don't know how far I was running. I actually remember I'd done a couple of 10k runs, but mainly it was like 5k, so we're talking about three miles a few times a week, which isn't bad prep. But then on day one I got to Sandhurst, met some guys in my platoon, and uh, you know, just cracking out half marathons for fun on a weekend. And I don't mean a race, I mean just I've got a training run to do, I'll run for about an hour and a half, and I was like, I run for about 25 minutes. Yeah, like yeah, there's a whole it's a it's a different jump. Yeah. So I think, yeah, definitely that that running aspect is yeah, is still really important, even though there's less running on the course, it's still that main type of officer fitness that you need to have.

SPEAKER_01 14:28

Yeah, absolutely. And and and and also that the one of the other things he said, he said don't do it on a treadmill. You know, get out on the road and because it's that impact, you know, you talk about the shins, you know, that is a thing that you need to do, and you know, and and actually you can then build it up yourself at your own pace. And you know, if you get two miles in, you think, oh, I'm in pain, yeah, you know, stop. Yeah, don't you don't injure yourself. Yeah, you've got you know, if you start early enough, and this is another thing we talk about on in absolute defense all the time, is plan, you know, plan ahead, you know, because so many people don't, you know, don't think um, you know, and I've got a 20-year-old and a 16-year-old, you know, I'm constantly saying, come on, plan ahead, you know, think what you do next week, you know, what what are you doing the week after that? What's your long longer term plan? Um, and it really annoys me. But um, uh, but uh but actually it's a you know it's a really key thing to understand that you know you the longer the longer time frame you've got, the more you can steadily you can build it up. And that's the issue with with you know, I've done you know training regimen stuff as you have and and at Sandhurst as well, they've got to lower that that trajectory. But actually, if you've got a lower standard, yeah, and this reflects on what you've said before on on other podcasts, if you've got a lower standard, that immediately increases your trajectory. Yeah, so you can't, you know, you what are you gonna do? And actually, the standard is here and that's always gonna be there. So if you start down here, that's your trajectory. If you start up here, you're gonna have a so much easier time. And when you get to that point, when you get to that, you know, critical decision point in a platoon attack, if you're hanging out less, you're gonna make better decisions. It's it's simple psychology, yeah, you know, it's oh physiology, you know, together. You know, it's it's just it's not rocket science.

SPEAKER_03 16:21

Yeah, and I I remember sort of um I remember actually there was a point where, and this is all training focus and nothing, nothing particularly, but I I remember seeing, I think sort of leading one of the section commanders into the to where I was going to launch them from or something. And I remember a couple of the blokes being like, fuck me, the boss has moved, like it shifted. Yeah, and I was like, well, good. I I want you to feel like I have as well, because it's my time to put this energy into this part. Because once I launch you guys, it's over to you. Do you know what I mean? Like largely. But at least you can see that I'm up for it. And I think actually there's so much, even just how it appears, yes, more thinking time in sus, but also what they can see. Yes, what they can see from their leader.

SPEAKER_01 16:59

I think it's absolutely and and you're you're right, you know, they don't get to see a huge amount of you. You spend a lot of time, not a lot of time, but when you're in camp, you do spend a quick fair amount of time in the office. Yeah, yeah, you're out with the boys, um, you know, at Fizz Morning Fizz, you're you know, but they don't get to see a huge amount of you, you know, and and and but what they do see of you, they need to go, okay, yeah, yeah, but fair one. You know, I understand where he why he's in that position now. Um, and uh, and that's that's a good positive thing to put

Mission Command: Process Over Perfect Plans

SPEAKER_01 17:33

across.

SPEAKER_03 17:33

We've been doing um with some of the guys that I'm working with now, we've been doing a fair bit on planning. And a couple of things as you're sort of speaking about planning, there's there's sort of the first part is that this amazing quote. Uh, I'm pretty sure it was by General Eisenhower back in the day of plans are nothing, planning is everything. You know, your ability, you know, we all know plans won't survive contact and all that sort of stuff, but your ability to make better decisions on the ground will come from your planning process. Yeah. If you chin that off and you don't do it well, you can't make as effective decisions when the plan inevitably goes wrong. So that's the first part is like pay pay homage to the planning process because actually it needs to be done. And then I think the second part is, you know, actually that's kind of where you add your value as a commander, is that because you're right, you've got people that can go in, deliver the the more punchy stuff if you like. That's their role. And your role is to make sure you've done your due diligence up to that point that when you give your orders, you look the part, you sound the part, you communicate it with conviction, because that's your role. And then actually you inspire them to do their role a bit more. I think that's probably like a really, a really important part of it.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

Yeah, exactly. And and it also enables you to adapt better. You know, if you've if you've looked at, right, okay, let what what are a couple of options of how to do this? It means if option one isn't happening, then you've already thought about option two and three, even if you've discounted them because they weren't great. Well, okay, well, that one's definitely not great because it's not working. So can you put elements of that in? Can you extract and go a different way, or can you, you know, do things a different way? I think is uh is really helpful. And and you know, you talked about um uh about your platoon commander who said, you know, don't cool don't use your first course of action. You know, if you've if you've enabled yourself to go, right, okay, what is what is my second course of action that's actually oh actually that's so much better. Yeah, because it's a bit more outside the box, and also it's it's uh I've I've put then put more effort into it and then tried to make it the better one. Yeah. And and and then it all of a sudden you've got whenever whenever I did courses of action at battlegroup level planning um and teaching this on JoTag, I was very much a case of right, this is a competition. I want my course of action to at least make up the bulk of the plan, if not all of the plan.

SPEAKER_04 19:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

Because and even though you got like, I want you to work up this like completely left field thing, you think, oh, thanks to that. Um, and uh, and but but you're like, right, no. Yeah, it's be competitive about it, you know, go right, okay, I'm actually gonna make this. Yeah. So good. And I I think it's missed it.

SPEAKER_03 20:14

Especially when you're going to ASB because it feels so far removed. And you might not even know that well, you definitely probably don't know what the planning process looks like at that point. Then you get to standers and you learn it, and it's the classic thing of you know, your second course of action isn't for shits and gigs. It isn't just to go, oh no, I forgot to do that. Let's just do something that doesn't work and it'll be fine. It's like, no, no, no, it's it's actually there. And when you get higher up, you've got a team of people developing this course of action. Like it's it's really important. Yeah. Um, and you know, your final, your final plan shouldn't be COA one or two, it should be something you've learned from both that you can take forward and make a more robust COA three or something. Yeah. I think that's yeah, it's often missed, and it's actually a part of when I'm working with people now, it's a part that I really enjoy delivering because you just sort of see them go, I didn't understand. I just thought it was like just had to put something in the box. It's like, no, no, that's that's a lack of things. That's something you could waste of time. Oh dear, yeah, terrible.

Why Infantry Over The Marines

SPEAKER_03 21:08

I'd love to know why. Uh take you back to sort of Santez there. I'd love to know why, why the infantry.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

That is a really good question. I um uh I when I was at school, I actually wanted to be a Broad Marine. And uh at university, the brief time I spent there, um I I did Royal Marines Reserves and I met some officers that weren't great. Um, and weirdly, in places like my local pub, I met Marine officers that I didn't I've never seen there before or since. And I thought, I don't think I'll get on. I don't I don't like you very much. Um I don't think I'll get on with you. And then it wasn't until Sandhurst they said, look, when you go to visit a battalion, you know, talk to the officers, you've got to be able to get on with them because they're gonna you're gonna live with them, um, at least initially. And you know, they're still gonna be your brother officers through. Throughout your career. So you've got to really get on with them in the first instance. And I think that was the reason I didn't go into the Marines. And then why the infantry? I I think at the time I didn't really understand. You know, I literally was infantry or engineers, because I quite like the idea of blowing shit up. And then I got to do mortars later on, which is blowing shit up in the infantry. It was like this is ideal. And that was great fun. But um but really I sub if if I'm honest, at the time it's because I didn't really know well enough about the army and I'd already committed before I started at Sandhurst, really. Um that not because I I'd I'd already, you know, I'd met somebody who uh who was a green jacket officer um through some friends, and and he said, look, you know, if you see the light and don't want to join the Marines, then give me a call. And so I'd sort of I partly committed myself already at that point. Um, and um, but it retrospectively, I'm really glad I did that because actually one of the things I found I'm good at is relating to the the the soldiers and that in-person leadership, in-person um uh uh contact is is something I really love. And I and I, you know, I love meeting new people. I love um I love all of that that one-to-one face-to-face contact. It's really, it's really positive. Uh, and so it it it turned out to be absolutely the right decision for me.

SPEAKER_03 23:43

Yeah, nice.

Reality Of First Command Post-Sandhurst

SPEAKER_03 23:44

So once you finish Sandhurst, there's a I think a lot of people that watch this, or hopefully anyway, because it's kind of built with you guys in mind, is uh is either you know approaching Sandhurst or at Sandhurst now, yeah, or maybe just made the jump to to second lieutenant and the job's suddenly real. How was that for you?

SPEAKER_01 24:06

Well, I did Sandhurst, then I did the Patoon Commanders Battle course, then I did the armoured infantry course. So I was like, for goodness sake, will someone give me some soldiers? Um so once I finally got out to Germany and got some soldiers, I was like, yes, at last, this is brilliant. And then they put then they did this commander's card for second lieutenants and corporals, and I was like, for heaven's sake, I literally had two weeks of my soldiers, and now I'm doing something else. Um, so um, so that was like come on. Um, but you know, it was run by Patrick Saunders, who then ended up being Chief of the General Staff, Henry Worsley, who um was uh the CO at the time was X SAS, and so had quite a lot of pull to get some people in. We had Julian Thompson, who was commander, three commander brigade in the Falklands, um, who came to speak to us. And um, and it was just it was an amazing learning experience and sort of got you into the this is the way that we do the culture of the battalion. Yeah, this is the way that we do things in a green jacket battalion, you know, this is the way the infantry does things, and and our our battalion specifically. So actually, whilst I resented it at the time, I then got to my soldiers, I think, better prepared in the green jacket mindset. Um, and uh, and then we were on beat up training ready for Bosnia. Um, and so it was ideal because I just joined straight into a pre-optor um uh training and then deployment um into Bosnia. Uh and then whilst we're in Bosnia, we're actually doing an exercise demonstration exercise. Um, and uh and on that exercise 9-11 happened and that then redefined it's like all that gen force, opfor stuff, been that. Um we're doing we're doing this now. It was like Roger, you know, and so again, that adaptability, you know, there's a degree of that, and there was a lot of lessons that we drew drew through from what we had learned, that sort of generic training that you do does have a lot of value in it, so don't sort of throw it out completely. But um, but that was uh that was really

9/11 Aftershock And Iraq Lessons

SPEAKER_01 26:10

interesting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:10

What was the what was the ripple down effect from obviously we know 9-11 happened, we know what happens next, but what did it feel like to be in the army at that time? Did you know, did you get wind that this was a obviously a very serious event? And was it kind of instantaneous that okay, this is going to change and we're probably gonna be going here? And uh or how did it sort of come across and how did that suddenly shift? Yeah. Because I I reflect on sort of I actually remember saying this to my platoon, right? This might be naivety on my part, but uh when we were at Sandhurst and especially Brecon, I mean, can you imagine doing this back when Herrick was happening? Like I imagine there might have been just a a touch more seriousness when we're approaching these things, especially PCBC, when you're there going through it, you're like, Yeah, I mean, half us are literally going out after this. So I can imagine, obviously, people have done that, but how did it feel to be in at that time as a commander?

SPEAKER_01 27:07

It was it was uh it took a bit of processing to understand what the implications were going to be. Um, because there was no decision. There was the president saying we're not going to take this line down, essentially. Um, and but we didn't um, you know, we started off in Afghanistan, but very much northern Afghanistan, Torobora Caves, Opfinger, I think your battalion, right, or your regiment, certainly. And uh a mate of mine was doing that. I I was at Winchester uh at the time and he arrived, having just come off Opfingal. I'm like, oh, what was it like? You know, it was really exciting. Um, but then it wasn't until 2003 that we went into Iraq for that side of it, and um, and that was very suspicious. It was the first and only time I was handed a government white paper to read. And I was like, why have I got this? I was I'm a lieutenant by this point. Yeah, what what? It's just not for more senior people, and um, and I sort of skim read it and went, yeah, weapons of mass destruction, destruction, apparently. There we go. So we you know, that's why we're going in. But it was like, why are you trying to convince me this is a good idea? Surely I just do as I'm told at this level. Uh, which was that was suspicious, but I didn't really think anything of it at the time. And then, you know, then uh we were so frustrating. We were the we were essentially the senior, most experienced armored infantry battalion at the time, had just moved to be the um the training battle group, I can't remember what it's called now, but the training battle group in Warminster for all the battalions going through Salisbury Plain, getting ready, and so one LI, I think it was one ally, one of the one of the LI battalions, who literally just started when it went to went on uh to war instead, and we were like, oi, hang on a minute, this is ridiculous. So so we were gutted about that, and it was just that, oh my goodness, and um and so you know everyone was champing at the bit to like get out and do it because that's that what's gonna be amazingly fun and a bit terrifying, um, but you know, but actually because we hadn't got to the stage where we were seeing coffins coming back, it was exciting. I mean, I can imagine, you know, like the first world war, it's an adventure. Yeah, it's like, yeah, it's an adventure till people start getting killed, and then all of a sudden it's like oh, this is a bit fruity. Yeah. Um, and I ended up going out um to backfill 2 LI, who were a light roll battalion, in sort of September 2003, so on Telec 2. And um, and we were still zooming around in Land Rovers, not even snatch wagons, they were Land Rovers. And, you know, it was, you know, we'd got on really well with the with the population in Bosnia, you know, you they very much respected a warrior armored vehicle, you know, you wave to the kids, they wave back, blah, blah, blah. Do that in in Iraq, wave, wave at wave at me, and then throw a stone at you. And you're like, Yeah, it's a stone, you know, you've got a helmet, a visor, and body armor on. It's like, yeah, but you're going 40 miles an hour after stone hits you in the face, even in the visor at that speed. Something's gonna go wrong. So um, so it was it was different, it was awesome, brilliant, loved it. Um, and uh, we did some really interesting things, you know, eagle VCPs from a helicopter, you know, uh Chinooks um just dusting vehicles so they stopped because they couldn't see, and then landing to get out to see if they're bringing weapons across from uh Iran uh on the Iran-Iraq border. Um, and it was it was fascinating, it was really different, exciting, you know, very much very different to Bosnia, which was the sort of peace support operations type thing. And um and but this was you know, there's a genuine threat here, you know. You you you know, we need to be careful. But actually, weirdly, it ended up being quite a theme throughout my operational tours. Whenever I went out there, there was a sort of all-time lull in the battle. And it was like, for goodness sake, you know, but it but you know, I think it was you know, him upstairs and probably dad too, sort of looking down and going, just calm that bit around that area. And it's like so it was frustrating, but actually, you know, it uh it was still very interesting to be out there and and doing stuff like that. Um it was really good, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:34

It sounds really interesting. I think um interesting that you're getting sort of white papers handed to you to kind of I guess that is the bit where it's like you're gonna have to communicate to this to your soldiers, and it okay, it's not the CO's brief to the battalion, but it's actually probably more of the the conversations on the sidelines where the platoon commando adds adds value rather than a big boys were going here or whatever. Yeah, yeah. It's it's kind of the bits where you get the questions thrown at you and you can have a little bit more value here and there. I sort of actually reflect on that quite a bit when we did Toral. It was more just the questions around it rather than a yeah, here's the situation. Yeah, people paid more money than me to deliver that. Yeah, but I've got the close relationship with the guys and I'll have that value there. Um okay, so it sounds actually pretty eventful as a platoon commander, and I think especially that you reflected where you did that um carder when you brocked up. I think that is such a bit of good um insight there because I think when people finish Sandhurst, they like, okay, I get the job. Yeah. It's like I've done all the training now. It's like, no, no, no. Then there's going to wherever you go and do your phase two, start learning that bit. And then there's the reality. And I remember one of the company commanders when I was um a Putin commander saying about a simple advance to contact action. It's like, what is it? It's like, well, you walk towards the enemy, they shoot you, but no, that's fucking madness. Yeah. Like, let's utilize the ground, let's stalk our enemy. Like, yeah, let's not just walk blindly and wait till we get shot. Like, that's in that's what we've been taught. Yeah. And then the pennies start dropping for individual actions, and obviously, for those that have been there and done it for real, you obviously learn in the hard ways, whatever. But I think that's actually really sort of a a great thing to remember is no matter how much training you've done, there's always more to learn, even about the simple actions. Yeah, because the reality is different from the people that have been there and done it.

SPEAKER_01 33:21

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. And yeah, all of those little individual drills um, you know, are critical. You know, everybody's actions in that in that circumstance make up to being, you know, demonstrate your competence, but also demonstrate the ability for you to um deliver what you need to deliver as a whole organization. And don't think that as an officer, it doesn't matter if your individual skills and drills aren't very good. It really does. Yeah. Um, because if they're not, then you might identify where your platoon is because you're the central guy and you're the one with all the antennas sticking out your day sack. And uh, and so it's pretty clear that you're the main person. Um, so you know, so you know, make sure your skills are there and are up to standard. Awesome.

SPEAKER_03 34:11

I think that I think that's it really

Promotion To Major And Career Trade-Offs

SPEAKER_03 34:13

interesting. You um you obviously spent well, you've obviously served a lot a long time, uh, and only what left six years ago, was it? Uh 2019, just before January 2019, so a lot while um but spent some time as as a major, obviously. Uh I'd like to maybe just touch on that because I know you sort of served in in the cavalry unit as a company commander, but I've recently done a video on on promotion. Uh, and I think it's landed okay. I think the points mainly come across in that video, I'm not 100% certain, but anyway. Um maybe a bit more insight. How does that promotion to major work? And I guess when were you more conscious of it? Because I think as a as you know, you just get capped in, you're not really thinking about becoming a major, and you're kind of in that period of trying to do the jobs. But I think there's a shift at some point where you go, okay, it's kind of well, largely debatable whether it's in your hands, but more of like you've got a decision point. Yeah. Do I either commit and try and do this as fast as possible? Yeah. Do I commit to a different avenue where I know I might hinder my promotion opportunities, but do the stuff that I want to do on my terms? Yeah, yeah. How is that for you?

SPEAKER_01 35:21

Yeah, well, I I think I think it's really important to understand where you want to get to. Um, and and think big, you know, if you want to be CGS, you know, you need to be commanding a battalion at age 30, 39, Patrick Saunders was, when he went through and went, hang on a minute, you're gonna be 39 but when you're comm out commanding a subunit with with your timelines, because thinking on grad left behind, obviously that doesn't happen anymore, thankfully, um, because it it was sort of nonsense. Um, but you know, but you've you've got to kick on. Um but if you want to have fun, you know, and and do the fun jobs, the fun jobs are a mixture. You know, I've got a mate who did commanding officer of the joint services um adventure training group. He had a great time. Um but um but you know, but actually arguably he was way he could have added more value elsewhere in in a in a say proper command job, you know what I mean? So a teeth arms um you know, sort of combat command job. Um and um so you've really got to be honest with yourself about you know where you are in the in the pecking order, you know, and you as a captain, as you've you've done on your podcast before, you've you've got you know, you are graded in that level, and you're given a star chart as to where you sit and things like that, and you'll be uh you'll probably have a good idea of where you sit in the battalion, but understand that your battalion, you know, could be going through a purple patch and be really great, um, or it could be not so great in cut you know compared to the the wider army. So, and there's a lot of other jobs going on and all that sort of stuff. Uh, and uh and and interestingly, in the infantry, as a battalion 2IC, you're seen as being that's you know, you're doing well, that's the next job is going to be really good. In the cavalry, regimental 2IC isn't seen like that. At least it wasn't when I was there. And I was really surprised. I was like, why are you doing the same sort of job? Okay, you've got less people, but you've got you know, it's still an really important job. You're there as the second in command to the CO. You know, if the CO dies, worst case scenario, or can't do his role, you're the CO. So it's quite, you know, it's quite an important thing, but not so much. So again, be aware of what the differences are in your arm or core as to how that works. Um, the reality of promotion is very much, I was like, I wanna, I was I was uh uh a mortar officer uh when I uh promoted to captain. I loved it, absolutely loved it. You know, I did math and physics at A level and loved the sort of scientific aspect of it and the um geology of sort of um, or sorry, not geology, uh sort of atmospherics of how how that affects the round in the air and all this sort of sort of interesting stuff. And so I wanted to go to Mortative to be an instructor. I did well on the course and I did well enough to to go there as an instructor. And they were like, don't do that. It's like it's so like career suicide. I was like, is it though, you know, is it actually career suicide? You know, that's the end of my career, full stop. Um, I knew as a non-grad and having gone to university for a couple of years, that I was already too late. So I was never gonna command, probably never gonna command a battalion, and certainly, you know, not gonna go much further. So, so my career was already limited before I even started almost. Um, and I'm ri and that's why I'm really glad that they've been that whole um non-grad promotion thing. It should be done on the meritocracy. And um, and the uh therefore I I was like, yeah, I'm happy, you know, I want to go and do that, it's good fun. We had young kids at the time, and um and actually a bit of stability was great. I then went to JoTac after that, and again, it was like, really? What what are you mad? You know, you are you not interested in promoting at all ever again? And uh and I was like, well, you know, I'm I'm aware of I'm a self-aware enough to to to understand that my promotional options. Um, and then you know, and then from there I went to Adjutant at Brecon. And like you, thinking, oh, Adjutant, no, what this is like the worst thing. I'm I'm dyslexic, very high proud to sort of say I'm dyslexic because I understand the value that dyslexics bring in nonlinear thinking and all that sort of stuff. And um, and but I thought, you know, writing, you know, I was at Brecon as well. I had to, I had to red pen, you know, people's reports, like 2,000 reports a year, uh, to to because the the CO said, look, this is our outward-facing sort of shop window. If these are rubbish, what does how does that reflect on us? They need to be of a good standard. And I was red penning and sending stuff back as being like the worst at English. I learned a lot about English, and that's put it like that. Um, but uh, but actually that ended up being, I love that job. It was the first time when they said, Look, you're not expected to know everything in you know in your job. You are the hub of a bicycle wheel, and all of those spokes are lines of communication with the experts. So if you've done it before and you know the answer, you know you know the answer, fine. Otherwise, for goodness sake, answer the question. Because you're dealing with some, you're doing dealing with people's careers, particularly at Brecon, you know, thrusting captains and and and colour sergeants. Um, and you are you're also dealing with military discipline. If you get that wrong, there's there's real trouble coming. Um and so, and actually what I ended up teaching, not ended up, the adjutant teaches mil the military discipline element to the uh infantry warrant officers course. So I did some instruction there as well. Um, and I've always loved instruction. Uh, it's it's it's good, and that's why I'm doing what I do now. Um, because I feel that I can get things across to people, yeah. Largely because I've struggled with a lot of it before. Yeah. And so, you know, it's not a question of can you do it yourself? It's a question of can you can you put that across to people? Can you explain the pitfalls of things you might be thinking this this, but it's not that. It's you know, this is the way. Um, so yeah, so I then ended up going to uh uh to do that job and and loving it. But um and and this this comes back to sort of a real piece of advice is that uh and reflects on what we were talking about before that don't think you know you have to know the answers. You're brand new as a second lieutenant, but you're expected to know the answers all the way through Santos. You know, if you taught this, you should know it instantly. You know, it's just like ask the question, yeah, you know, and perhaps don't go to your boss and ask your boss because he might judge you on whether you you know on that stupid question you've just asked, but ask a more experienced friend to say, you know, I'm really struggling with this. Have I completely had a shock at it or what? Yeah, um, is really important.

SPEAKER_03 42:36

I think in I think it's really good advice. I had um uh Robin White on here a few a few weeks, months ago, I can't quite remember, who was a company commander at Sandhurst as well. Um, and really interesting chat. Uh and he I can't remember if he said on camera or off camera, but he basically said it at times in training it can feel like us and them, you know, us being the the trainers or trainees which I've started adventure on, and them being the other. But the idea is that when you get to battalion, we're all on the same team. Yeah, yeah. So it's like actually you can ask now. There is probably some elements of it that it doesn't feel like that at times, maybe Ellie cohort. I might be looking at you many times, yeah. Um, but actually we had some great Ellies in in our in our battalion. Um different relationships with different ones, I guess. Yes, but but definitely and definitely that bit of okay, I'm brand new. And I I think I reflect on this, and I'm really open about this, is I felt way too much pressure, or at least self-induced pressure, of trying to be right all the time and show that I knew my stuff. And actually, in the first six months, 12 months, even it probably came to my detriment where people saw through it and they were like, We know you don't. So just like stop. And then and it happened definitely. I felt a significant shift when I was at Cataric, and I suddenly felt way more relaxed in my own command style. And I guess the reality of what happened was I had. Spent some time in the role, so I'd learnt it obviously. Yeah. But I felt more comfortable with what my strengths and weaknesses were. I was like, okay, cool. These are my strengths, and and this is really what I think I add value to the platoon here. And it might not be particular tactical prowess or whatever. But I think I bring this type of culture, I can get people to work together, respect all that type of stuff, standards. And then for the bits that I'm maybe not as good at, I need people to fill in or find the answers in different ways. And I think I just got more comfortable with that whole process. Yeah. Whereas at the start, I was like, oh shit, I need to know everything. I need to impress everyone.

SPEAKER_01 44:34

I think when you're more sure in your skin and more confident that you are competent, then actually you your co your competence grows exponentially because you have that freedom to be able to go, hang on a minute. Sorry, I didn't quite understand that.

SPEAKER_00 44:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:47

And if I don't understand that, then the you know, more junior people probably won't understand it. And absolutely. So it's a good job I'm asking rather than them feel uncomfortable and not know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:56

And I'm sure you would have seen, I mean, I remember sort of seeing some COs do it in like experienced OCs that were clearly very good. And actually, it's it's like a weight's been lifted. If they're quite happy in an O group or a meeting or whatever, just to suddenly go, Do you know what? I'm not sure. What does everyone else think? It's like, yeah, oh well, I don't need to know all the answers. It's not about being right, it's about making the right decision. Yes. And I think that's two very different things.

SPEAKER_01 45:19

Yeah, that's a really good piece of advice. Yeah, absolutely. Um okay, so there was just to finish your question, which was about promotion. Again, I warned you I might ramble. But you know, the the the point is that you know, I got to the point where I finally did an adjutant's job, which I should have done two jobs two jobs ago. And you know, so I didn't pick up first, second time, and then you know, and and I was quite gutted about it, and then I'd been drafting, I come top of the school of infantry um or top of Brecon and came higher than somebody, and then he was then he was promoted. So the brigade or the commander commandant school of infantry went, well, if he's promoted and you haven't, then he should sit above you. And I was like, No, because he he's already promoted, he doesn't care. Yeah, you know, I need the the the sort of the tick of the box or thing. Anyway, irrelevant. But um, but the I'd done really well at it, and then I didn't pick up the next time, and I was gutted, absolutely. I was like, I have grafted, I've worked really hard. You know, I was working sort of 12, 14 hour days, um, and you know, my family were down south, I was up in Brecon, wasn't seeing them during the week, it was a really tough time, and um, you know, dealt with some horrible things, you know, we had a suicide, we had stuff that you just think, oh my goodness, this this shouldn't be happening, you know, really crunchy stuff that you know, if you're in a you know, if you're in uh DS on the Petin Command's battle course, you're not having to deal with that. Yeah, you know, that's that's not stuff that you you need to worry about. Um and you know, yeah, you're right there, front and centre, and you've been placed in that position and you've still not got it. And it's like I don't understand that. And then I um uh went out to uh Afghanistan and then I promoted while while I was out there, um, and I was mentoring a full colonel as a captain uh in the Afghan National Army, and I designed and delivered the recruitment and selection process for for that. So it went through, I brought him back to CO AOSB, um, which was amazing. And it was just like, if he goes A-WOL, it's your fault. I was like, right, I was like handcuffed to him the whole time to make sure he didn't wander off. Um, and we went to see the sort of changing of the guard at Buckingham Palace and all that sort of stuff as well, which is great because we had uh on the team, we had a a guards, LE guards officer, who was like, Yeah, my battalion's there now. I'll, you know, I can get you in to do that. And I didn't realise it, but he we were like inside the the bit where the where the marching about happens, you know, in front of Buckingham Palace, but inside the railings. And I was like, I am not, and it was like, have you got a jacket? I was like, no, I was in like a like a uh not a fleece, but a sort of a sort of jersey, and and so I had this like jacket thrown at me and like put over the top, it was about two sizes too small. So I was like, eh, and uh, and then when we came out, everyone was like taking pictures of us, thinking we were famous or something like that, and it was it was really awkward. I was like, I could have seen that just as well from the other side of the railings, it would have been a lot more, a lot less awkward.

SPEAKER_03 48:21

And the kids were like climbing on Buckingham Palace, and it was like, oh it's so I remember um one of my one of my mates uh that I commissioned with went to the guards uh and my unit was based in uh one Royal Angley at the time, it was based in Woolwich, south east London, and he did a stint at Wellington Barracks doing all the ceremonial stuff, and we went out on the piss uh and got got battered to be fair. Um, but I stayed at Wellington Barracks and so I woke up in the morning, went down to the mess, had some breakfast. It was obviously a weekend uh and whatnot. And it was summer, so it's glorious. You're in you know central London having some breakfast in the garden, but at the end of the railings, just people don't take photos of you, and I'm like so hung over.

SPEAKER_02 49:03

I'm like, mate, what is going on? He's like, It happens all the time, don't worry about it. And I was like, I this is not what I need right now. Let's go inside. Yeah, I shouldn't be screens, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:12

They shouldn't see this. I mean, right. Um cool, yeah. And I think I think that's it's interesting because I don't think I've had anyone on yet that's spoken so openly about the frustrations of promotion. And I think that was what my more recent video was about was was it just doesn't work quite as you think. And also you can so you essentially you then meet the quality line, right? You you promote.

SPEAKER_00 49:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:34

What happens from there? So you are now you found out you've promoted, but you haven't picked up yet. Yeah, yeah. What do you have to do to then be so so yeah, so interesting.

SPEAKER_01 49:43

The just to just to sort of clarify that, you've got the quality line, then you've got the quota line. So the quality line, yeah, I was above the quality line throughout. Yeah, okay, but I wasn't the quota line was a lot higher. We've got this much space for this many slots, and therefore you just missed out or whatever. Uh, and so uh so that was that was quite galling when you're sort of well above the quality line, and then you know, but the quota's just not there. Um, and uh and then yeah, so then there was this hiatus. I came back, I was then um, you then do your um intermediate command staff course, which is an amazing course at the Defense Academy at Shru Shrivenham, and um and I had six months to to push to that. And they were like, right, well, uh normally in a six-month gap, you'd go on tour somewhere because you know it's a beautiful sort of six-month operational tour gap. Um, but uh, but you've just come back off tour, so we can't do that. So I went down to Exeter to be uh training major of uh six rifles uh reserve units. Um, but I'd just spent two years at Brecon, largely away from my family, then seven months on tour. Then to do this, it was like, this is gonna break my family. Yeah. And so actually, halfway through that six months, I pushed the panic button and went, This can't work. Um, because you know, my wife is gonna divorce me, otherwise, and that's not okay. Um, and actually that that's when the the the the system went, okay, fine, yeah. Okay, we'll we'll rearrange things and move you to to this location. And uh and I worked in our sort of regimental headquarters in uh in Warminster, um, that sort of the that infantry group of people there doing sort of um uh advertising and running the uh the training teams and things like that. And it was good, you know, it was pretty chilled out. You know, I did I got to do all of the pre-work before ICSE with that sort of MK module, MKICSE as it's called, I don't know where it still is. Um, and um and so I was quite well prepared when I went because of course there are all these other people in doing really crunchy SO3 jobs who like, you know, you're already working 23 and a half hours a day, you know. When are you gonna do your MK modules? It's like you're not is the answer. And so um, so I actually went to YCSC quite well prepared. Um, and uh and it was it was a brilliant course. I really enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_03 52:13

I've heard some really good things about that.

SPEAKER_01 52:15

So the course is done.

SPEAKER_03 52:16

Yeah. When do you become a company girl squadron commander?

SPEAKER_01 52:19

Uh so I then went to army headquarters as an SO2. Uh I did uh SO2 survivability and sustainability. So sounds dull, but actually involves rations. I like food, yeah, so that was good. Uh boots, everyone loves a good pair of boots. I finally got decent boots into the army. One of my biggest successes. Um I brought in Virtus, so fielded Virtus. Um, and there were so many gaps in the system, I I didn't do it by myself. I had some very capable people helping me, but there were it should have been about four or five of us, and it was two or three of us. And so it was that was a difficult uh to do. Uh, and but we made sure that that it could be changed and adjusted and evolved as part of the contract, uh, so that if we found that, you know, you know, the top flap wasn't there, for example, and then everyone's like, well, hang on, you top flap like everything. Yeah, yeah. So so it's got to have a top flap. It was like, yeah, obviously, who who missed that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and um, and you know, at the point it was like we need to feel this, we can already in sort of pulse two, we'll we've already thought about the top flap and we'll retrofit that and then it's fine. Um and it was all within the sort of fight light doctrine um project pain, as it was called at the time, and uh and that and interestingly, that was being developed by one of the uh by OC Senior Division when I was at Brecken. So I knew about it already, and I knew about the tactical evolution of that before I then worked at Army headquarters. So I was sort of intrinsically understood that and really enjoyed it and understood the tactical end to then say, right, now you're building the kit, that's what it's gonna be able to do. And so it was that was brilliant. That was really great to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_03 54:04

It's funny because I got to battalion and I think we just spent a bit of money on getting some nice kit or whatever. Yeah, and then it was like right, only Virtis. And I'm sure like half the battalion. We're like, whatever. We've not spent hundreds of pounds on my code to not wear.

SPEAKER_01 54:18

Gucci webbing with a thousand pouches on it's like that. Literally is not what we're talking about when it comes to fight light. You can you've got what have you got? Yeah, why have you got 24 hours of rations in there? You don't need to, but that's what that's the reels or fighters like that. Okay, quite um, so yeah, so and then and then come and then subunit command after that.

SPEAKER_03 54:39

Awesome. So let's touch on touch on that then because I think this is particularly insightful, especially if people are you know about to start scientist or going through the process now or even about to be that new platoon commander.

What An OC REALLY Wants From Young Officers

SPEAKER_01 54:50

What does their boss want from them? Right. So um so the first thing I've put I've I've written this down because uh you know I just I was once told by a general, you know, they've they've always told me never to to give more than three points. So you've got three takeaways. Uh so I'll summarise this at the end. But the first one is thoughtful, you know, think about what you're doing. Um and and uh be a be a student of your art. Something I didn't do as a as a Platinum Commander, I regret it. You know, read the books. If you don't uh if you haven't read Served a lead, read it. You know, you're giving it a sadness for a reason. Um and you might not have time because you're so what you know you're doing other things. But if you don't have time to do it there, do it another time. You know, do do you know study your art, read it, and get outside the box, you know, read you know, completely different stuff, stuff on leadership. Um, you know, if you're interested in rugby, you know, you know, legacy and things like that, you know, some great stuff that my you know my son's just read um at the age of 16, and so he's you know he's already sort of interested in that side, you know, read around the subjects, try and find stuff that other people haven't read um rather than just following the well-tread trod path. You know, if you are dyslexic, then get on Chat GPT and say, give me a 200-word praise and a and it will go. Do you want a chapter by chapter sort of top tips on or or or what this chapter talks about? They are brilliant. They're brilliant, and you can read an entire book uh in you know, in in a quarter a fraction of the time.

SPEAKER_03 56:34

There's software, by the way, that you can just put articles in and it'll make a podcast. Yeah, it's just two AI things going at it that you just drop the PDF in and then it creates a obviously takes a few minutes, it creates a podcast and then you can just listen to it.

SPEAKER_01 56:46

Oh, so yeah, so brilliant. Yeah, that would have just been a game changer. Not great for a competitor, but yeah, it's probably AI. And uh um, but the you know, so that's the first one. Um, and within that, as I said before, be inquisitive, you know, ask the questions. Um, you know, yes, you might need to be careful about how you who you ask, you know, LEs are quite good because they're outside of the chain of command, like your chain of command as a as a young officer, um plazoon commander, um, so they can be useful. Um, but um, but be inquisitive, you know, think about okay, I don't know about that. I'm gonna find out about it and dig into it and find out about it. And actually, you finding out about it might throw up some other stuff that your mate who told you the answer didn't know. And so there's value in in doing your own research and asking people together.

SPEAKER_03 57:36

I think that as well. I remember um I remember once I'd got a bit more experience, I remember I had a few really amazing LEs, yeah, which got me out of the shit on a few times when I misbehaved uh and really screwed the nut. Yeah, but but also were just an unbelievable sounding board and mates, yeah. Good mates. Yeah, they embraced being an officer. I think there's some that are a bit reluctant, they're still like soldier at heart, and they are. But I remember when I gained a bit more experience, just the confidence to go, mate. Can I just ask you? I'm gonna make this decision. What do you think the soldiers would actually think? Because as much as we know soldiers, we have well, I, you know, most direct entry officers haven't been one. So there is an element of not really knowing. Yeah, and they are un obviously you can do that with your sergeant and whatnot, but I think the Ellies sometimes they are just fantastic at just being what do you think a corporal or something before I make this decision, before I do this, is this just that random officer coming up with the good ideas? Or or is it actually well, how can I put it across?

SPEAKER_01 58:35

How can I communicate?

SPEAKER_03 58:36

I've got to make this decision, yeah. And that honestly so good, and I think for anyone turning up is really work hard to create that relationship because you know, you're only a second Lieutenant once, but they've probably seen shitloads of you come through. So, like going out of their way to make the relationship might not happen. It needs to be on the other foot, and I think that's some really good advice.

SPEAKER_01 58:54

Yeah, I think that it certainly it would have stood me in a lot better stead. You know, I had uh Rob Thompson as my first um OC, uh, who, you know, Cambridge graduate, worked really hard, and he was just so far ahead. I was like, I can't keep up with this guy at all. And I just felt like I was disappointing him all the time. We're quite good friends now. Um, but he ended up being a major general, um British uh uh commander British Forces Cyprus, I think is his last job, and um just exceptional, and the lessons that I took away from not getting it right under under his command just stood me in such good stead for the future. So, you know, listen to your OC because you know don't just think they're stopping me doing this, and I want to go and have you know a beer in the mess and I've got to go work and rubbish. Um, you know, sort of, you know, listen to them. They're they've got your they've got, you know, as you say, you know, we're all in the same team, you know, they've got the your best interests at heart and they've been through the system and they know how to get to the next level. So listen to them. Um the next one is character and care. Um, you know, don't be boring. For goodness sake, don't be boring. And um uh and you know, so balance your scrolling yourself away to read the books that I've been talking about. Um also um, you know, show a bit of character, you know, have have a bit of a laugh, you know, don't do anything outrageous that's gonna fail the daily mail test and and you're gonna put you on the front page of you being sort of naked in a in a in a bar in or a club or something in uh in on the King's Road or something nuts like that. But the um but the every guardsman and cavalry officer right now it's like fuck whoops.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:48

Um but every night in Japan is going tame, is that all?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:53

Um, but yeah, I mean uh there's a time and a place for that, but just try and try and don't be part of the army at the time. Um, but um and you know be fun, you know, have fun. You know, the I've I've never heard a truer word about life is about the journey. You know, don't think oh when I get to you know captain or when I get to major or when I get to command, it's all gonna be great. Just have fun while you're while you're doing it, while you're getting there. Um, because if you have fun, you'll want to do more of it. And if you want to do more of it, if you do more of it, then you're more likely to get to that end point.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:27

Um, and with that, you know, look after your soldiers. You know, we we talk about it a lot in the in in the green jackets, and I'm sure you do the same um uh in the Royal Anglians. It's uh it's such an important element of what you do. And moving across to the cavalry, um, you know, I had an assumption about how they would be with their soldiers. Some of that was was correct you know correct. I saw some terrible treatment of soldiers, not nothing illegal, but just sort of stuff that I wouldn't expect my people to do. And I sat my troop leaders down and I said, Look, you know, do you do not treat your soldiers like like servants? They're not servants, they are there to do the do the dealing of death when you need them to. Um, and we're a recce regiment, so you know, doing other things as well. Um, and uh, and you know, they are if you treat them well, they'll treat you well and you'll do well. And interestingly, if I look at all of the people that were in B squadron uh with me, they've almost all done better than their compadres. There were some that from other um uh squadrons that were extremely capable that have done well as well. Um and uh and I you know I'd like to think part of that at least is down to them understanding how to look after their people. Um, because if you look at those who get to that that higher level, that chief of the general staff, that sort of like high general level, you know, there's a reason why they tend to be more infantry, or you know, there's there's not that many from from the wider organisations out there, actually. Um and um and so you know, when you get to that wider context of being considered in a wider army context, then you you know actually if you you look after your people, that's really important. And also, you know, when you get to the wider context and you're you've got engineers and gunners and people like that, and people who aren't, you know, not all infantrymen are stupid. Um but you know, because the standard is the intellectual standard for getting into the infantry is lower, inevitably you've got yeah, you've got some that are, but not everyone's like that. So don't expect them all to be like that. You know, I you know there was you know I've had some fascinated conversations with corporals from the Inc. Corps and things like that. You just think, Criken, they've got like three degrees, and you're like, well, okay, fine, I'm thinking on-grad over here.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:06

So one of the main reasons when uh I was taking over as intelligence officer, and I only did a short stint. Yeah, I was like, look, I'm a non-grad, one of the few non-grads in the battalion. I feel like this is a fucking joke. Like everyone knows I'm a non-grad.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:22

Intelligence, really, yeah, quite, yeah, quite. It's uh it's an interesting sort of sort of uh approach. But you know, actually, you know, it's you're doing the job, and that's that's a key thing. Um, and the final one is you know, work hard. You know, that work hard, working hard will not in itself get you promoted, it won't get you what you want in life. But I'll sure as shit tell you, if you don't work hard, you do you won't get there, you won't get to the next level, you won't get what you want in life. So, whilst it doesn't inherently get you what you want, it will definitely not get what you want if you don't work hard. So, you know, get out there, work hard, you know. And when you're not on exercise and you're finishing at lunchtime on a Friday, understand that that's quite nice, you know, because when you get out in the big wild world again, it's uh, you know, and you're working Saturday and probably a bit of Sunday because you're trying to start up your own business or something like that, you're like, oh yeah. I remember when I could, you know, I could do a night, you know, eight to five or eight to six. Football Wednesday afternoons. Yeah, exactly. Wednesday afternoons and complain about it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, indeed. And you know, so you know, it comes comes back to that enjoy the enjoy the journey. Yeah. And you know, work hard. You know, they say work hard, play hard, you know, just enjoy what you're doing. Enjoy your work as well as in you know the stuff when you're not working.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:43

I think it's absolutely I think to to just add on to that, as you've been doing, I've I'm reminiscing as you're speaking, and it's lovely, really. You know, there was a period of time I I was lucky to to live in a mess with some fantastic people that are like some absolute best mates. Now, some just very quickly. Closely that it's the type of relationships, no matter if you haven't spoken to them in four years or whatever, you see them, and it's just like you pick up where you left off, it's it's lovely. And I think most military people are like that. Um and but it's a unique period, you're growing up with these other people. And I talk about it like when I was a second lieutenant, there was a set few, well, largely everyone in that officer's mess was really close with, and obviously I was young in learning the job and whatnot, and learning leadership, but I was taken under some people's wings and I grew up with those people. And then when I went to Catarick, had a that mess was unbelievably great, you know. 30 people living in the mess that are all the same rank, yeah, you know, no majors lived in or anything like that. It was it was it was chaos to be honest with you. Uh it was great it was gleaming. And then when I came back, it was only like three weeks where we had that old cohort of the Royal Anglian of the Viking lot that I grew up with that were there before everyone started getting posted out and going here, there, and there. And then obviously we had another batch come in and it was it was still great, but it was different. And actually, I think as you're speaking, it's like fuck me, embrace that time because it's shorter than you think. Yes. You might think I'll join the army and I'll serve 10 years or something, and you live in the officer's mess, but you don't. Yeah, you live in the officer's mess for shorter than that, and you then live in the officer's mess with only a few people, even shorter than that. Yeah, yeah. And it's really unique that growing up period, and you know, you're you're 20-something, yeah, learning about this really cool job with a lot of responsibility, yeah, but also you're in your 20s. Exactly. Oh, we're basically so much disposable.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:28

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Christ, I miss that. Spent 600 quid on the piss. Fine. Exactly. It's fine. I'll don't get an actual game.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:37

Ideal. Yeah. Um, I think that I think they're fantastic and and yeah, really, really good, especially what you want from um new platoon commanders, some really good

Leaving The Army To Build A Business

SPEAKER_03 1:07:46

value in there.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:47

Um, I'd love to move on to to sort of leaving the army and and building a business because I think that is it's really interesting. One, how it's come about, how you've got the idea, how you found it. I'm on that journey as well, and it's probably been the most rewarding, maybe close second to that Sanders period in my life. Um, but so rewarding, but hard. Yeah. Like really hard. Uh, and sometimes everything feels great, and other times everything feels like it's on fire, and it's just like, God, this is difficult. But I also reflect on the lessons I learned in the military that are helping me overcome these challenges. Yeah. So I'd love to hear how that's gone for you.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:26

Yeah, I it's uh, you know, when I was going through my career transition partnership stuff, workshops and things, you know, I was writing my CV and I sort of said, look, I'd already started Absolute Defence way before I I uh left the army. Um, and sort of what it would have been about 12 years before I left the army. So I had um I had been delivering courses in my leave and you know, doing you know there's there's a letter you have to write to the CO to make sure he knows you're doing it, all that sort of business. So it was all above border, it's not secret or anything. Um, and uh I I um spent about 12 years um promoting the need for a proper unarmed combat course of the army and you know briefing ever increasing ranks at it and getting their buy-in, and and I designed my own course. I studied um all of the major uh unarmed combat systems across the world um and um including some of our adversaries and uh and had uh designed a really good system. Um I then left the army and two years later they picked someone else. I was like, hang on, did you not you know and uh and actually I spoke to one of the people that was leading it, and he went, Well, you two years ago? I was like literally just leaving the army. I was like still in the army at the time. Um and um, but one of the reasons I couldn't deliver it was because I was because I was still serving and I had a job to do. And so uh so that was a real shame. But I loved it and it was great. And uh, you know, I delivered the the unarmed combat course to you know a couple of squadrons in the QDG and I delivered one at ICSE and I delivered other ones as as well, did one in uh in Afghanistan for sort of multinational group, which was which was fantastic. Um and uh and I really enjoyed it and I thought, you know, actually this is something I want to do. Um, luckily, my wife was in a job that was paying well enough to allow me to do that, um, because you know, there wasn't a huge amount of money coming in to start with. Um, and exactly with you, when it's going well, you're like, I am amazing. And then when it's going bad, you think, oh, I'm just awful. What do I what was I thinking? You know, just like I I can't do this. Yeah, exactly, exactly. What else can I do? You know, just and and you know, and you know, in order to support that, I've had part-time jobs alongside it, um, and uh and you know, and thought about different ways adaptable, uh adapting what we do to different things, particularly around that sort of preventative stuff and how that links to leadership with um with personal leadership. You know, I I I've seen some of your podcasts before I I came along. And one of the things I really liked about your about your first stage of leadership is self-leadership. You know, actually we forget about that, that we think leadership is all outward, you know, and apart from the bit where you go, you've got to be the best and you've got to lead from the front and all that sort of stuff. Uh that's true, but all but actually you can only do that well if you get yourself sorted in the first place. So actually, sort of mental control, um uh um understanding how to to to understand your own feelings and suppress them, direct them in a different way, or you know, take a breath and just take a moment to say, you know, this is you know, I'm not gonna react, you know, specifically, particularly, particularly in the army, where you might be reacting in a way that is very specific to the army, shall we say? And you do that in Civistreet and everyone's like, oh my god, it becomes a complete arsehole. Yeah, yeah. And uh, and you can't, you know, that's you can't act like that. So there's some really, really useful stuff. Communication, I didn't understand till I started working for civilian civilian businesses and with civilian businesses, is to exactly how good your communication is when you're in the military. Yeah, um, it is next level, and we, you know, one of the key things that we do is is communication. And we do conflict resolution and confrontation management. There's obviously a confrontation management element within self-protection, but actually, there's so much conflict uh out there, and actually, there's this concept um uh that was created by a uh a psychologist called Leanne Davy, and she talks about conflict debt and the fact that lots of people don't like conflict so they avoid it, and so they don't deal with the problem, and therefore it gets worse and worse and worse, just like a financial debt. And so, you know, to the point where it gets so bad that it's a major HR issue because somebody's just just boiled boiled over. Um, or you know, or it's you know, it's it just affects productivity the whole time and just undermines that the whole time. You know, we know we've got an issue with productivity uh in this country, but we've got a solution. No one seems to be really that interested in dealing with it. They're just gonna go, well, we're blame it on the government, or blame it on the the you know, the global price of oil, or you know, we'll blame it on something else as to why our productivity is rubbish. No, your productivity is probably rubbish because of some key elements that we do, you know, we do a sort of uh leadership diagnostic on countr on companies and we we say, right, these are the areas. It's not just a case of fact-finding about where do you think your pain points are. We go through an actual diagnostic with companies and go, right, this is where you need some assistance. We can provide that assistance, they can go elsewhere and find provide that assistance if they want. We do it in a in a in a fairly novel way because we're coming at it from this self-protection perspective. Yeah. Um, and uh, and that's that's a really important sort of thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:18

I think that's um that's really I've just been making some notes if you go on this in in that last bit you said about uh if you let whatever it is, small or big, just continue, it will definitely become a big issue at some point. And I think that's something you learn quite early as a young officer. Yeah. Is you've got to nip stuff early. It doesn't necessarily mean be aggressive, yeah, but it means just a quiet word to be like lateness won't tolerate or or whatever it is. Yeah. And I remember actually being in um, so I joined a startup, a tech startup when I left. And it was great, but everyone was young, and actually that was a big attraction because you know, like-minded, whatever. Yeah, yeah. But actually, everyone was still really junior in their own leadership journey. And even though I knew fuck all about tech and frankly still still know little, um, I I had more leadership experience than the people at the time. Obviously, we as we grew and got more investment, we recruited more senior people, so they had more than me, especially in that sphere. But um, at the start, it was me. And I remember uh a good mate of mine actually, we had an issue with recruitment, some of the people we're getting on not lasting. And I was like, you know, there's an element here where we're taking graduates into their first job, and we're a core tech startup, and we start at 10 a.m. and not 9 a.m. And all these things, which is like take it for granted, but actually these are rewards, yeah. And that trust is earned, not given. You know, and it's like actually, if he's late, you need to tell him. Yes, not with his core tech company and let it slide. Tell there's still standards here, yeah. They're just slightly different from your corporate, yeah. And I think that's that's a really important lesson that you learn through mistake, uh, through error early in your career, where you're like, oh, actually, now it's a big issue, and now I've got to have this all really awkward channel. Yeah, and I could have dealt with it months ago just by going, not on, not what I want to do.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:03

Yeah, indeed. One of the key things I've really learned about um performance management is if you come at that issue from a perspective of wanting to help them, like you're late. Why? Not why, but why, you know, is there something going wrong? You know, are you struggling to get up in the morning because you're on the lash every night, because you're young and actually, but actually there's an underlying thing because you've had a major trauma in your life and you, you know, you need some help. You know, you know, why why is that? Let's try and help help you out there um to to to make it better. And it makes that conversation so much easier because you're I'm coming at you to you to say, how can I help you? Not how can I tell you off. Yeah. That actually, and behavioral change is all about making that stick. And it sticks a lot better when you've sorted out the core problem, yeah, or the the you know, that and that that that foundation is stronger to then enable them to be able to be on time. And at the same time, you're talking about the importance of being on time. Yeah, yeah. So if it's just down to the fact that you know, you're you know, you're you're rubbish at timekeeping, actually they they're going, uh, I do I need to make something up that something's really bad. Yeah, or but also I'm having this sort of mum, dad, parent talk from this guy, this person, and uh and and therefore I'm you know, I sort of feel like, oh, actually they really care about me, and and I don't want to let them down. Yeah. And so you're more like again, you're more likely to get that behavioral change. And it'll only be a good idea.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:45

Yeah. If you keep seeing to the same person like nothing happens, yeah, oh, it used to frustrate me so much. Yeah, yeah. Like even if people had to leave early to go and get kids. This is when I was younger working in a different company before the army. A couple of people had to leave and go and pick up their kids. Absolutely no issues with that. Yeah, yeah. Why aren't I allowed to leave early? Yeah, yeah. Hold on, what's fair here? Yeah. Actually, with a bit more experience, I get it. But uh, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:08

When you have kids, you'll get it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um inbound. Interesting.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:12

So so you've gone through that process, I guess, of setting it up, um, working with, I guess, loads of different types of businesses, really.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:19

Yeah, exactly. I mean, uh I I get slightly frustrated by um by uh people I speak to saying, uh, who else have you worked in our within our sector? And it's like, we are proudly sort of sector agnostic. You know, we do you have humans who work in your business, then I'm the man for you. Um, you know, it's a human thing. Everybody has humans working, even tech companies have humans working in their in their companies. So if you have humans who breathe air working in your company, we can help you out. Uh, and so it's uh it's a case of you know, actually, it doesn't matter. Yes, okay, I get that the you know, some of the things you need to be able to adapt to uh to to how they're doing it, but that comes in the conversation and the diagnostic, and we can then massage and and tailor the training to how you need it, but you're never gonna know your business, we're never gonna know your business as well as you know your business. And so don't expect me to know my know your business better than you do. Yeah, but also, you know, at what point in your military to career uh were you told you need to be able to receive information, receive understanding from anyone, you know, a yoga teacher, something completely non-combat, totally different, and then you need to be able to adapt that into uh in the you know, into how can you change that? How can you get the benefit of that and put it into what you are doing that might be completely different?

SPEAKER_00 1:19:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:48

You know, that was something I learned quite early on. So if you've got a management consultancy or, you know, uh financial, you know, banking industry or something like that, who's like, you need to, you know, you need to be sector specific. How about you need to be able, you know, you're apparently really clever. So if you're really clever, then open your mind and and you know expect more from your people because they need to be able to adapt to a certain extent. You know, yes, it's pretty lazy training if you go, right, we're gonna go, you know, talking to a banking organization, we're gonna talk about construction all the time. Yeah, you know, okay, yeah, granted, you know, you need to adapt it, but you you can only do that to a certain extent. There needs to be a a sort of final yard where you go, right, um, this is you know, this is a key.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:34

You know, productivity and and the reason people leave business, whatever the business, whatever the industry, they're the same reasons, yeah. Don't feel valued. Yeah. You know, you know, it's actually not pay most of the time, it's don't feel valued. It's uh, you know, can't can't express my own opinions, not as productive, don't get on with my boss. Yeah. They are the main reason someone would leave the organ, unless obviously a huge offer, yeah, big credit. But people aren't leaving for five and ten grand more if they're not feeling those things. Exactly. So actually it's retention positive and it's it's you know, productivity positive, obviously.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:07

Yeah, and so it saves a lot of money because you know, re-training people uh and recruiting people is an expensive business. And then you've got that gap in productivity where you know the old person who was up here has left, and then you've got to pick someone new up, and then no matter how good they are, they're still gonna have to be trained into the way that you do things and all that sort of stuff, uh, which is uh really important.

Practical Travel Security Kit And Mindset

SPEAKER_01 1:21:30

Um, so I've got some presents for you that I think might be a good time to bring across on the bottom. I'm excited. I completely stole this from the Sean Ryan show, and he does it at the beginning, um, but but I thought it'd be a really good thing. So um coveting my hoodie coveting my hoodie. So I've got you one of those, but don't put it on now because otherwise the uh you know the the viewers will have no idea how to tell us apart.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:52

Um absolute defense, intelligent self-protection.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:56

Yeah, I love the slave. Um, yeah, yeah, yeah. Great quality. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's all about good quality. And then there's uh there's a little goodie bag, which I thought, you know, there's a there's sort of stories that you can go through, which uh with as you get them out, I'll I'll sort of talk to you about each bit and how that works. Because um I, you know, just to give you a sort of heads up on this, we I I did this for um uh for a friend of mine who works in a big uh London legal firm. He was going out to Ukraine to do some pro bono work um for uh a children's hospital out there. And um, and it was he said, I take this pack everywhere I go with me. Um and uh and you know, we'll talk through each bit. So this is just a little battery pack, always useful to be able to recharge your phone. You know, your phone is such a lifeline these days, you know, whether it's understanding where you are, communicating with somebody else to where you are, and you know, I need some help or something like that, all really critical. So, you know, making sure that you've got a uh a rechargeable phone is great.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:03

I was at the tube the other day and my phone ran out of battery, and I was like, wait, hold on, how on earth do I get out of here? Like, what happens to the fair? I know that isn't quite what you're you're doing, but it is a simplistic version of the fact that you have my phone died, and I was genuinely like, how do how do I possibly solve this?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:20

Okay, cool. What's this? So that door wedge, very simple. Um most uh uh hotels these days have card entry. Um, of course, who can also have card entry into your room? Um the cleaner. You know, they go along, clean everybody's rooms every day. So they don't get paid a huge amount. So it's not it's it's not hard for somebody to go, can I just borrow your card for a few hours? And they can have access to anybody's rooms. So um, you know, if you're in a frankly, anyway, you don't need to be in Ukraine or somewhere really dodgy to uh think actually um I need to, you know, anyone can get into my room. Bung that under the door, and it means that you can have a more peaceful night's sleep. Uh and actually the uh and then you're better at doing your job the next day, you're better at leading people if that's your job. And you know, companies spend a lot of money taking you to that location to be able to deliver what you do. So um, so it's really important that you could deliver that when you're there. Yeah, um, because otherwise they've wasted their money. You know, a simple thing like that means that you you're better rested. And actually, this chap said to me, Yeah, I went to sort of a country in Central Africa and I was terrified. I got about half an hour's sleep. And you, you know, you and I know what it's like, you know, prolonged periods of no sleep, it does affect your capability quite significantly. So that that's that's it's a simple thing, but it's it's really valuable. Cool. Torch. Torch, always useful, and it's metal. So holding it like that, you know, if somebody does have a go at you, you know, it's not a self-defense weapon because they're illegal in the UK. Um, but actually it's a torch, and you know, if you clobber somebody with that, it'll hurt a lot. Yes, love them. So that's not his primary role. I just want to make cycling on that.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:13

I live in East London. Okay, cool. What's in here?

SPEAKER_01 1:25:17

So this is another little element that that works with the uh the wedge. You put it into the little hole where the door closes, and then you put the other bit of the plate uh into one of those uh slots and then drop it in, and it just gives another position that that is gonna hold the door. So you've got one at the bottom, one at the sort of where the door handle is, um, which is often where people kick because that's where the lock is if they're gonna try and kick the door in. So it just reinforces the door more um to give you a bit of time, a bit more time to be able to prepare yourself, put grab more stuff. Yeah, exactly. You know, if you're if you're uh on the on a sensible level, perhaps you've you know you've picked, you know, level two, we'll keep it sort of uh international. So not the ground floor, but the the next floor up. Um Americans call that level two, you know, second floor, but we call it first floor. Um, you know, there might be a uh a ceiling or uh an area outside that you can jump down onto to escape out of that room. Um and uh and so you know that could be an ex another exit, and there's something else in there that will help you do that. Um and um and so um so they so this next thing is is uh if you take the end off or one at one of the ends, pull it off, yeah, then that's a a window breaker. Um you just push it up against the window, don't do it on your thumb. Had somebody do that and went, I've never really hurt my thumb. Um but uh but yeah, so that that you know, so if you're in a Tesla, for example, um uh Tesla with push button exit, if you're in a crash um and the push button doesn't work anymore and the car's on fire, there are lots of people every year that die in car fires because they can't get out. Um so if you're in a taxi or something like that, always useful to have that. Um what do you do? Just jam that up against the push it up against the window and it and it presses in and then clicks a little thing out that smashes the window. You can also use that for um for exiting out of the the uh hotel window because often they have those little wires um at the at the bottom to stop you opening the window to to jump out. And then that's a seatbelt cutter for back to the vehicle situation. So, you know, so if you if you can't get out, you're you know, you're in a um in a you know, you dr you know often, you know, Ukraine, for example, is you know, apart from the artillery and the drone attacks, one of the major issues of uh uh about safety over there is is road safety because the roads are in yeah, you know, almost as bad a condition as Cambridge um with potholes and things like that. But you know. But the driving's pretty sketchy. And you know, if you're in a car accident, you you know you go into water, then you know you can get out of that. So it's so really useful thing to have with you all the time. Um, so this is a Faraday pouch, um, and a proper Faraday pouch is big enough to put your phone in, uh providing you haven't got one of those like iPhone whatever that's like an iPad. Um, but um, but it means that you know, again, lot, you know, I again I'm focusing this on Ukraine, but but this can happen in a number of different locations. If you're extremely an extremely high value target um for for robbery, then they might try and track your phone if they can get a tag on where your phone is. Um so if you're out and about and you don't need to use your phone, putting it in one of those is really is really good for for just maintaining your security. I think some people might think high value type, you have to be some sort of VIP, but actually it just depends where you are in the world.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:58

It's all relative. You can be yeah, yeah, you can be the same same dad, but yeah, somewhere else in the world and all of a sudden.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:04

Yeah, yeah, you're a zip.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:05

Okay, and I think I know what this one is. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:08

Good old good old notebook. Um yeah, exactly. And you know, plan for success. It's all all all of them have got little sort of notes on to sort of say so. Can people buy this sort of stuff? Yeah, so if you um if you we haven't got the um the uh e-commerce thing set up on the website yet, but if you want one of these, then email me at absolute defense.com on the contact page and uh we can sort you out with one. Game.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:34

I can see, especially if you know I've had friends that have left and done uh, you know, before they've gone into their corporate world or whatever they want to do, they want to do it something a bit more, you know, they they scratched the itch in the army, but they didn't quite get out the door and do what they want to do. They've either gone on you know, close protection stuff or they've gone and done some charity work. I've had a few friends that have gone and helped in in Ukraine when all that was happening. Uh Turkey when there was the the the earthquake and whatnot. And I think actually you go out with these organizations, but you don't get given anything. Yeah, you just go out to help, which is great, but you are going to a dangerous place. Yeah, and actually some of this simple stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:06

Yeah, indeed. Lots of the security firms. Yeah, lots of the security firms will go, oh right, yeah. Um, we've got you on a little dot on a map. So brilliant. So you'll know where to find my phone when I'm abducted. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When it's getting home, you know, and uh and so you know, so actually the training to back this up is really important. Um and uh so you know you're very good. Good evening. Awesome.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:30

Well, it's a first on the pod. I'm gonna make it a thing. Yeah, absolutely. I'm not gonna give the gifts, people have to give it to me.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:36

Invite them on, they pay for their own train tickets and they buy me something. Perfect. Fantastic. But I know we are we are at time. Ollie, I've really enjoyed that conversation, mate. Thank you so much. Um I think there's a lot of value in there, uh, particularly around yes, leadership, but particularly around developing it at a young age, which is what we're what a part of the attraction is in the army, right? You can go into anything, but you know you're gonna develop your leadership at a young age. Yeah. Um, how promotion works, I think that's really cool. Uh, but also that bit of of of being a new second lieutenant and and learning the ropes, who to speak with in the battalion, what your boss wants from you, the right way of doing things, yeah, trusting your gut. And I think one of my OCs once said to or my mate, my my IOC said to me, uh, which is what I still carry with me to this day, is like if if your intent is good, you're most of the way there, right? The execution may not be perfect, but if your intent is good, whether it's how you're dealing with a soldier, whatever your plan is, whatever your next move is, if your intent is good, then I think if you harness that, then then usually good things will follow. Yeah, indeed.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:36

One of the things we didn't really cover is is is uh is about making mistakes and about the fact that in in combat you don't want to make any mistakes because you know people die. But actually, we translate that into the rest of our jobs in the army, and that's really unhealthy. You've got to have that freedom to make mistakes and learn from them. You learn a lot more from making a mistake than you do from getting something right. Yeah. And um, and yeah, okay, you don't want to be the only thing that make making mistakes all the time, which comes back to that thoughtfulness point of you know, you as long as you're doing it as you say for the right reason, your intention is right, then and you were trying to get it right, but you're trying to do it a different way or trying to you know innovate, then great, you know, that's how we evolve, you know, it's really important. Um, and you know, conflict is an important part of innovation. Definitely. So um, so you know, and part of that comes from making mistakes.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:28

Yeah, awesome. Yeah, brilliant.

Final Thoughts & Advice

SPEAKER_03 1:32:30

Perfect. Well, guys, that is it for for this week's episode. Uh, another podcast uh with some really great advice in there. If this has been useful, please do click like, please click subscribe. You can ding the bell so you're notified every time I upload a video. Uh, and especially if you're listening on Spotify, please do give this one a review. It really, really helps. Um, and share it with anyone that you think might get a benefit as well. That is it for this week, and I will see you next week with a brand new video. See you next week.